The role of the press

[Surfless]

Sorry to start a new thread, but I feel compelled to highlight this.

In the late 1990s when I wanted to get football news "live" I used to go to the TV, mash the red button on the remote and then type 225. Ceefax would then give all that the BBC had on Spurs. That was it unless you went to ITV and did the same, with only an advert for premium rate news from Teamtalk to go by as extra places you could "surf".

Today the options are a bit wider, but with the widening has come a dramatic drop in quality.

Take the last sixty days. It's been Poch in, Poch talking to the club, Poch not talking to the club, Poch joining Chelsea.

Then it was Naglesmann - where he was interested, then keen, then distancing himself, now he's back in contention. Next cab off the rank?

Arne Slot, who whilst a manager with clear ability was an unknown to all but the staunchest football fan a month or two ago. Yet now he's amazing, he's going places, but that place ain't Tottenham.

Today it's been Postecoglu, whose name most of us couldn't pronounce or spell. He's been at the lower end of "the list" for some time apparently, but now through a dearth of choices he's swanning, nuno-esque into the top job in London.

The overall picture this paints is of a club in crisis. A club with no clear idea. A chairman who is clueless, and half witted in his attempts to sign managers, sporting directors, and retain players.

The problem is that this is literally all from the media. Did we speak to Poch? Did Levy shun him? Did Poch beg for the job back? Dunno! None of us do. We know what Alistair Gold, what Romano says, or x journo at the Express. But they are all employed to get a story out to sell newspapers.

Do you think the story would be as compelling if it read "Tottenham have established a set of criteria for the next manager, based on successes and mistakes they have made before, and are going to take the rest of the season to establish the best candidates for that role."

The drama that the modern day media invokes in everything from politics to the environment to sport is unbelievable. Yet so many believe it.

I'm not saying that all that the press are reporting about our club is a lie. Some may well be true. But the cacophony of boolsheet that surrounds the truth makes it virtually impossible to hear past. A fair few of us, including me at times, would do well to remember that.

Rant over.

 

[spurspinter1]

People don't seem to get that the various sides of the media will cover all angles sooner or later so no matter what your viewpoint/ bias is, everyone can go to www.I'mright.com and dive further in to their own rabbit hole but have "evidence" to back themselves up.

That said, the people who year in year out moan about the people moaning about stuff in the media are no more productive or clever, if anything actually more tiresome as they are merely repeating the same sentiment, it's ruthlessly boring and high horse-y. Within reason people are entitled to get carried away and it can occasionally be a fun ride.

Places like this are for discussion, otherwise we may as well just lock the new manager thread until we appoint one in an official statement, same for dof thread, same for transfer rumours thread etc etc.

I don't see a problem with people hoping for Slot even if they only recently became aware of him, getting your hopes up and then swiftly brought back down to earth is part of the Spurs experience and supporting nearly any football club.

 

[DubSpur]

People don't seem to get that the various sides of the media will cover all angles sooner or later so no matter what your viewpoint/ bias is, everyone can go to www.I'mright.com and dive further in to their own rabbit hole but have "evidence" to back themselves up.

That said, the people who year in year out who moan about the people moaning about stuff in the media are no more productive or clever, if anything actually more tiresome as they are merely repeating the same sentiment, it's ruthlessly boring and high horse-y.

Places like this are for discussion, otherwise we may as well just lock the new manager thread until we appoint one in an official statement, same for dof thread, same for transfer rumours thread etc etc.

I don't see a problem with people hoping for Slot even if they only recently became aware of him, getting your hopes up and then swiftly brought back down to earth is part of the Spurs experience and supporting nearly any football club.

There's no prob with people reading and hoping for Slot etc I was tbh. The issue is that people read it, are then convinced that we are in advanced talks with Sot (or whomever), then it doesn't happen and they start throwing their toys out of the pram, and it's all Levy's fault and the club are shambles etc even though there was little to no contact.

 

[Grays_1890]

There's no prob with people reading and hoping for Slot etc I was tbh. The issue is that people read it, are then convinced that we are in advanced talks with Sot (or whomever), then it doesn't happen and they start throwing their toys out of the pram, and it's all Levy's fault and the club are shambles etc even though there was little to no contact.

This

People can believe what ever rumours they want that's absolutely fine it's when it's repackaged and presented as fact, which I question. If people post rumours I find them interesting TBH, it's when it's proceeds "and that proves"...when it proves nothing that becomes irritating.

What is an interesting dynamic is the difference use and perception of the media from people on offtopic subjects than the football ones. I find there is a more rational scepticism of what's in the press in subjects in offtopic than here in Spurs views. Plenty of "don't always believe what you read" there, less so here, which is fine but also contrary when it's the same posters.

Personally not sure there should be as much trust in the media with recent and historic miss representation of the truths, and I certainly wouldn't trust the proactive monetised version of the media who get paid the more people click and watch or call in.

The fact for me that ultimately proves and endorses my own scepticism in the media is there is not one single cast iron ITK that anyone can name me that gets even 10% of their stories or rumours right.....tells its own story for me

In summary stolen from @alekaras which sums it up perfectly for me...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1662094968624922624

 

[Mr Gogolak]

You make some valid points but where do you draw the line, personally? Do you think there are Nazis in the Ukraine, for instance? Or did you get your shots during the pandemic? Why do you (or me, or anyone else for that matter) 'choose' to believe some news and ignore others?

My point being that shooting on the messenger is easy enough when it's fairly inconsequential news, like football gossip for instance. When it comes to serious stuff... it's a little more complicated than that. If someone made a conscious decision to ignore or deny everything in the media, they wouldn't be able to function in society. They'd either end up in a cult or in a nuthouse.

I have fond memories of the teletext myself. But while I share your sentiment, I think the spotlight should be on each of us, individually, rather than the media environment. Stories are part of mankind, some of them true, some of them false and most of them somewhere in-between or impossible to assess: from religion to legends, to football gossip.

What you 'choose' to believe is part of your identity. It makes you who you are. Some stuff you'll believe because it fits with what you think you know, some you'll ignore. I think a more open-minded approach to other people's beliefs are more sorely needed than a return to teletext, if I'm being honest.

 

[DubSpur]

You make some valid points but where do you draw the line, personally? Do you think there are Nazis in the Ukraine, for instance? Or did you get your shots during the pandemic? Why do you (or me, or anyone else for that matter) 'choose' to believe some news and ignore others?

My point being that shooting on the messenger is easy enough when it's fairly inconsequential news, like football gossip for instance. When it comes to serious stuff... it's a little more complicated than that. If someone made a conscious decision to ignore or deny everything in the media, they wouldn't be able to function in society. They'd either end up in a cult or in a nuthouse.

I have fond memories of the teletext myself. But while I share your sentiment, I think the spotlight should be on each of us, individually, rather than the media environment. Stories are part of mankind, some of them true, some of them false and most of them somewhere in-between or impossible to assess: from religion to legends, to football gossip.

What you 'choose' to believe is part of your identity. It makes you who you are. Some stuff you'll believe because it fits with what you think you know, some you'll ignore. I think a more open-minded approach to other people's beliefs are more sorely needed than a return to teletext, if I'm being honest.

Not sure what other people's beliefs have got to do with the media making brick up?

For news, I try to stick to reputable sources. For football, it's hard to avoid rumors from less reputable sources but I do take everything with a huge pinch of salt and don't really believe anything until it's announced.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Sorry to start a new thread, but I feel compelled to highlight this.

In the late 1990s when I wanted to get football news "live" I used to go to the TV, mash the red button on the remote and then type 225. Ceefax would then give all that the BBC had on Spurs. That was it unless you went to ITV and did the same, with only an advert for premium rate news from Teamtalk to go by as extra places you could "surf".

Today the options are a bit wider, but with the widening has come a dramatic drop in quality.

Take the last sixty days. It's been Poch in, Poch talking to the club, Poch not talking to the club, Poch joining Chelsea.

Then it was Naglesmann - where he was interested, then keen, then distancing himself, now he's back in contention. Next cab off the rank?

Arne Slot, who whilst a manager with clear ability was an unknown to all but the staunchest football fan a month or two ago. Yet now he's amazing, he's going places, but that place ain't Tottenham.

Today it's been Postecoglu, whose name most of us couldn't pronounce or spell. He's been at the lower end of "the list" for some time apparently, but now through a dearth of choices he's swanning, nuno-esque into the top job in London.

The overall picture this paints is of a club in crisis. A club with no clear idea. A chairman who is clueless, and half witted in his attempts to sign managers, sporting directors, and retain players.

The problem is that this is literally all from the media. Did we speak to Poch? Did Levy shun him? Did Poch beg for the job back? Dunno! None of us do. We know what Alistair Gold, what Romano says, or x journo at the Express. But they are all employed to get a story out to sell newspapers.

Do you think the story would be as compelling if it read "Tottenham have established a set of criteria for the next manager, based on successes and mistakes they have made before, and are going to take the rest of the season to establish the best candidates for that role."

The drama that the modern day media invokes in everything from politics to the environment to sport is unbelievable. Yet so many believe it.

I'm not saying that all that the press are reporting about our club is a lie. Some may well be true. But the cacophony of boolsheet that surrounds the truth makes it virtually impossible to hear past. A fair few of us, including me at times, would do well to remember that.

Rant over.

Great thread, great timing, well done mate.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Not sure what other people's beliefs have got to do with the media making brick up?

Opinions are often a matter of beliefs. You pick the news you believe and even when it's a direct quote or a fact, there's many ways to look at it. So long as someone is able/willing to give the reasons behind an opinion, I think it's more interesting to try to put yourself in their shoes than simply throw everything away because it doesn't fit in with your own point of view.

I feel a lot of people tend to think in absolutes and have a very black or white outlook on the world but maybe that's just in my immediate environment.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Sorry to start a new thread, but I feel compelled to highlight this.

In the late 1990s when I wanted to get football news "live" I used to go to the TV, mash the red button on the remote and then type 225. Ceefax would then give all that the BBC had on Spurs. That was it unless you went to ITV and did the same, with only an advert for premium rate news from Teamtalk to go by as extra places you could "surf".

Today the options are a bit wider, but with the widening has come a dramatic drop in quality.

Take the last sixty days. It's been Poch in, Poch talking to the club, Poch not talking to the club, Poch joining Chelsea.

Then it was Naglesmann - where he was interested, then keen, then distancing himself, now he's back in contention. Next cab off the rank?

Arne Slot, who whilst a manager with clear ability was an unknown to all but the staunchest football fan a month or two ago. Yet now he's amazing, he's going places, but that place ain't Tottenham.

Today it's been Postecoglu, whose name most of us couldn't pronounce or spell. He's been at the lower end of "the list" for some time apparently, but now through a dearth of choices he's swanning, nuno-esque into the top job in London.

The overall picture this paints is of a club in crisis. A club with no clear idea. A chairman who is clueless, and half witted in his attempts to sign managers, sporting directors, and retain players.

The problem is that this is literally all from the media. Did we speak to Poch? Did Levy shun him? Did Poch beg for the job back? Dunno! None of us do. We know what Alistair Gold, what Romano says, or x journo at the Express. But they are all employed to get a story out to sell newspapers.

Do you think the story would be as compelling if it read "Tottenham have established a set of criteria for the next manager, based on successes and mistakes they have made before, and are going to take the rest of the season to establish the best candidates for that role."

The drama that the modern day media invokes in everything from politics to the environment to sport is unbelievable. Yet so many believe it.

I'm not saying that all that the press are reporting about our club is a lie. Some may well be true. But the cacophony of boolsheet that surrounds the truth makes it virtually impossible to hear past. A fair few of us, including me at times, would do well to remember that.

Rant over.

When I first went to work on our local paper the Editor had a big sign in the editorial office it said "Facts not Opinions" an old fashioned idea.

 

[Surfless]

There's no prob with people reading and hoping for Slot etc I was tbh. The issue is that people read it, are then convinced that we are in advanced talks with Sot (or whomever), then it doesn't happen and they start throwing their toys out of the pram, and it's all Levy's fault and the club are shambles etc even though there was little to no contact.

Perfect answer. Thanks!

 

[parklane1]

Sorry to start a new thread, but I feel compelled to highlight this.

In the late 1990s when I wanted to get football news "live" I used to go to the TV, mash the red button on the remote and then type 225. Ceefax would then give all that the BBC had on Spurs. That was it unless you went to ITV and did the same, with only an advert for premium rate news from Teamtalk to go by as extra places you could "surf".

Today the options are a bit wider, but with the widening has come a dramatic drop in quality.

Take the last sixty days. It's been Poch in, Poch talking to the club, Poch not talking to the club, Poch joining Chelsea.

Then it was Naglesmann - where he was interested, then keen, then distancing himself, now he's back in contention. Next cab off the rank?

Arne Slot, who whilst a manager with clear ability was an unknown to all but the staunchest football fan a month or two ago. Yet now he's amazing, he's going places, but that place ain't Tottenham.

Today it's been Postecoglu, whose name most of us couldn't pronounce or spell. He's been at the lower end of "the list" for some time apparently, but now through a dearth of choices he's swanning, nuno-esque into the top job in London.

The overall picture this paints is of a club in crisis. A club with no clear idea. A chairman who is clueless, and half witted in his attempts to sign managers, sporting directors, and retain players.

The problem is that this is literally all from the media. Did we speak to Poch? Did Levy shun him? Did Poch beg for the job back? Dunno! None of us do. We know what Alistair Gold, what Romano says, or x journo at the Express. But they are all employed to get a story out to sell newspapers.

Do you think the story would be as compelling if it read "Tottenham have established a set of criteria for the next manager, based on successes and mistakes they have made before, and are going to take the rest of the season to establish the best candidates for that role."

The drama that the modern day media invokes in everything from politics to the environment to sport is unbelievable. Yet so many believe it.

I'm not saying that all that the press are reporting about our club is a lie. Some may well be true. But the cacophony of boolsheet that surrounds the truth makes it virtually impossible to hear past. A fair few of us, including me at times, would do well to remember that.

Rant over.

Very well said and so true, pity some will not listen though.

 

[DubSpur]

Opinions are often a matter of beliefs. You pick the news you believe and even when it's a direct quote or a fact, there's many ways to look at it. So long as someone is able/willing to give the reasons behind an opinion, I think it's more interesting to try to put yourself in their shoes than simply throw everything away because it doesn't fit in with your own point of view.

I feel a lot of people tend to think in absolutes and have a very black or white outlook on the world but maybe that's just in my immediate environment.

Get your point, Republicans only watching Fox news and Democrats watching CNN etc. It's a real danger on social media, they use analytics to see what you view, build a profile, and you end up getting more links that align with your profile. It ends up that you only view things that you already agree with and views become more and more entrenched.

The point here though is that the sports media is willingly peddling lies to get clicks and it's not about your beliefs.

 

[Grays_1890]

You make some valid points but where do you draw the line, personally? Do you think there are Nazis in the Ukraine, for instance? Or did you get your shots during the pandemic? Why do you (or me, or anyone else for that matter) 'choose' to believe some news and ignore others?

My point being that shooting on the messenger is easy enough when it's fairly inconsequential news, like football gossip for instance. When it comes to serious stuff... it's a little more complicated than that. If someone made a conscious decision to ignore or deny everything in the media, they wouldn't be able to function in society. They'd either end up in a cult or in a nuthouse.

I have fond memories of the teletext myself. But while I share your sentiment, I think the spotlight should be on each of us, individually, rather than the media environment. Stories are part of mankind, some of them true, some of them false and most of them somewhere in-between or impossible to assess: from religion to legends, to football gossip.

What you 'choose' to believe is part of your identity. It makes you who you are. Some stuff you'll believe because it fits with what you think you know, some you'll ignore. I think a more open-minded approach to other people's beliefs are more sorely needed than a return to teletext, if I'm being honest.

I think that changes as you get older though and the ability to watch the news and not be swayed is easier and you don't need to really form an opinion to function IMO. I think its much more important to be able to cut out inconsequential things you have no control over and concentrate on what you can, to use your example, if there are Nazis in the Ukraine or if man made it to the moon there is no direct impact on my life so I can take it in with interest but there is no pressure to decide on if you believe it or not. I don't think you need the news to be able to form what should be intrinsic choices on whats human nature, we know its right to treat people with kindness not because of what the media tell us but because we can gauge peoples reactions and tell for ourselves. I actually think the media has historically influenced peoples decisions on kindness and human nature for the worse because of years of miss information.

Bit deep and detectorists is on in 3 mins so will leave that there, only to say I think its more important than ever to challenge whats out there being reported, there are some great stats and factually compiled studies based on the misinformation on social media and how that feeds into media now, basically social media means anyone is a journalist...will dig it out over the weekend.

 

[Surfless]

Mr G - this isn't about opinions. Opinions are formed on the basis of someone collecting facts to a level that suits them - some will do more research than others.

This is about the fact that in the interests of selling newspapers, advertising et al, the modern media now prey on subjects that are polarising and likely to provoke extreme reactions. I think of it as the Adrian Durham effect.

Right now it's fashionable to slag off Tottenham Hotspur for being a shambles. For having no plan. Once we have a manager and he's stable and making headway they will move to linking our top player with other clubs. All with no basis in fact. All designed to provoke a reaction.

If we fall for that, through a combination of passion for our club and discontent at perceived incompetence, then the media has won.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Opinions are often a matter of beliefs. You pick the news you believe and even when it's a direct quote or a fact, there's many ways to look at it. So long as someone is able/willing to give the reasons behind an opinion, I think it's more interesting to try to put yourself in their shoes than simply throw everything away because it doesn't fit in with your own point of view.

I feel a lot of people tend to think in absolutes and have a very black or white outlook on the world but maybe that's just in my immediate environment.

All print media have agendas set by their owners and the way news is reported reflects that, TV prefer to present issues with two sides being given the opportunity to put their views and when it's done well can be more enlightening. The bottom line is they all apart from BBC need numbers to promote their advertising revenues. Both seem to promote the black and white view which in the long run is not in anyone's interest.

 

[Mikey10]

Mr G - this isn't about opinions. Opinions are formed on the basis of someone collecting facts to a level that suits them - some will do more research than others.

This is about the fact that in the interests of selling newspapers, advertising et al, the modern media now prey on subjects that are polarising and likely to provoke extreme reactions. I think of it as the Adrian Durham effect.

Right now it's fashionable to slag off Tottenham Hotspur for being a shambles. For having no plan. Once we have a manager and he's stable and making headway they will move to linking our top player with other clubs. All with no basis in fact. All designed to provoke a reaction.

If we fall for that, through a combination of passion for our club and discontent at perceived incompetence, then the media has won.

We have churned through 6 managerial stints in less than 5 years. For the second time in less than two years we have taken more than two months to appoint a permanent manager, this time despite knowing since January that our last manager had no intention of staying past the end of the season. We have no Director of Football, as the previous incumbent had to resign due to receiving a world wide ban from football. We have played joyless football for the guts of 5 years and progress on the pitch has stalled. The atmosphere in the stadium has been verging towards toxic for the second half of the season.

Maybe the media do tend to hone in on us - but we don’t half make it easy for them.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We have churned through 6 managerial stints in less than 5 years. For the second time in less than two years we have taken more than two months to appoint a permanent manager, this time despite knowing since January that our last manager had no intention of staying past the end of the season. We have no Director of Football, as the previous incumbent had to resign due to receiving a world wide ban from football. We have played joyless football for the guts of 5 years and progress on the pitch has stalled. The atmosphere in the stadium has been verging towards toxic for the second half of the season.

Maybe the media do tend to hone in on us - but we don’t half make it easy for them.

Course they hone in on us
We sell column inches as we’re a huge club
Our fans lap it up
There is always a flavour of month club in the basis of who is most fudged at that point in time
Weirdly Chelsea are getting no real grief currently

 

[Grays_1890]

Course they hone in on us
We sell column inches as we’re a huge club
Our fans lap it up
There is always a flavour of month club in the basis of who is most fudged at that point in time
Weirdly Chelsea are getting no real grief currently

It's also a case of facts of the past being used to create lazy rumours about the present and future to which fans say "it must be true because....."

I said before, a few truths don't therefore make all rumours true, not when those truths are also cherry picked to omit the positives (of which there are also many)

Let's be honest too, the media aside, many fans have already made up their minds up about the future that the media doesn't have to work that hard to gain traction if their audience have a negative idea about the future already

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[Baleforce]

Course they hone in on us
We sell column inches as we’re a huge club
Our fans lap it up
There is always a flavour of month club in the basis of who is most fudged at that point in time
Weirdly Chelsea are getting no real grief currently

nah it is always us

like you say, look at the mess Chelsea are in, look how up the arse of the arse they are, look how they got behind doping racist Leicester in 2016

there is an agenda in the UK press against us

 

[Grays_1890]

nah it is always us

like you say, look at the mess Chelsea are in, look how up the arse of the arse they are, look how they got behind doping racist Leicester in 2016

there is an agenda in the UK press against us

Our manager chase is creating bigger news inside and outside the Spurs bubble than the story of Champions, FA Cup winners to relegation by Leicester within 7 years. In real football terms, that's the real disaster story of the year....

There is a reason for that

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