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The Overlap - some interesting comments from Ange

carl said:
But season 3 would've been different under Ange because........just because 🙃

Be interesting to see what powerhouse of European football comes in for our former EL winning manager, there must be a queue surely. His 8 game winless stint at Forest also doesn't matter as some on here say it doesn't count.
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It would have been better than this season and better in the league than his previous season, because he wouldn’t have had as many injuries unless he got serious bad luck. Simple as that.
 
Robspur12 said:
Poch faced the eventual title winning Chelsea team and a Liverpool team who set a record for achieving the most points not to win a title. Do you think Ange would have beaten either of those 2? He had lost to both in the league and cup during that last season.
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My point is not that Ange is better than Poch. It’s that he was able to arrive at a final, and tell the players they were going to win. And they believed it, and then did it. I think people are glossing over just how much of a difference it was for our club to have someone that believed he was a winner and inspired the players behind the idea they were going to win. Just think back to before Bilbao. We had been a trophy laughing stock for years.
 
Mikey10 said:
You say that as if it is fact. It’s completely unprovable. And what happened at Forest is evidence that it’s unlikely to have played out as you state.
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‘What happened at Forest’ is not ‘evidence’ of anything. It’s a completely different club is a completely different context.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
‘What happened at Forest’ is not ‘evidence’ of anything. It’s a completely different club is a completely different context.
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Why isn't it evidence?

People say it was the wrong club for him, so why did he take the job?

People say it was the wrong set of players for his system, so why did he insist on playing a style that didn't suit them?

Its just constant excuses for him and it's getting really boring.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
My point is not that Ange is better than Poch. It’s that he was able to arrive at a final, and tell the players they were going to win. And they believed it, and then did it. I think people are glossing over just how much of a difference it was for our club to have someone that believed he was a winner and inspired the players behind the idea they were going to win. Just think back to before Bilbao. We had been a trophy laughing stock for years.
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It's a bit of a weird non comparison. Poch faced far better teams in his finals. Are seriously comparing Manchester United of last season to those teams? 🤣

Winning a trophy has a little to it than a managers belief that they will do it. Competition quality does play a part as well. 🤣
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
It would have been better than this season and better in the league than his previous season, because he wouldn’t have had as many injuries unless he got serious bad luck. Simple as that.
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He would have started this season with no Maddison, no Kulu and no Solanke. How well do you really think his brand football would have gone over with 0 passers of the ball? Probably just about as well as the end of the season and even the final itself went (horrible performance, but a win nonetheless).
 
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Bishop said:
He would have started this season with no Maddison, no Kulu and no Solanke. How well do you really think his brand football would have gone over with 0 passers of the ball? Probably just about as well as the end of the season and even the final itself went (horrible performance, but a win nonetheless).
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I think he would have done far better because he would have had actual centre backs, actual wingers, a good back up striker in RKM and I think Simons would have fared better with options around him. Bissouma probably wouldn’t have been frozen out, and we probably wouldn’t have sold Brennan without a replacement.
 
Bishop said:
It's a bit of a weird non comparison. Poch faced far better teams in his finals. Are seriously comparing Manchester United of last season to those teams? 🤣

Winning a trophy has a little to it than a managers belief that they will do it. Competition quality does play a part as well. 🤣
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Again, I’m not saying Ange is better than Poch. I’m saying that to win any final, to actually get over the line when the pressure is on, when you haven’t previously done so, and especially when the club has been synonymous with NOT doing so, against a club who have trophies galore even in their recent down period…that is an achievement. Our players turned up thinking they were going to win that game. And I think Ange’s confidence from winning and sheer belief from that experience was able to translate to the players to do that. I am Poch’s number one fan, but he would have to motivate in a different way. He couldn’t at the point of being with us transmit ‘winner’ energy, because he had never won anything.
 
carl said:
Why isn't it evidence?

People say it was the wrong club for him, so why did he take the job?

People say it was the wrong set of players for his system, so why did he insist on playing a style that didn't suit them?

Its just constant excuses for him and it's getting really boring.
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He was wrong to take the job.

I’ve said it a bunch of times but if you’re hiring Ange because you expect pragmatism, you’re hiring the wrong guy. You hire him because you want him to bring his brand of football and uncompromising belief. I think Ange would even acknowledge that because of that, he might be seen with scepticism by the truly top clubs. But that’s who he is. That’s his place in the game, and that’s what brought him the success that he has had. I’m not going to judge him for not being something that he isn’t.

He never should have joined Forest. They never should have appointed him. The squad liked Nuno, and didnt need to be whiplashed into a radically different style, mid season, with a game every 3 days.

It proves nothing about what would have happened with us because it was a stupid situation for all concerned. Ange never should have joined them and they should have never have appointed him.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Again, I’m not saying Ange is better than Poch. I’m saying that to win any final, to actually get over the line when the pressure is on, when you haven’t previously done so, and especially when the club has been synonymous with NOT doing so, against a club who have trophies galore even in their recent down period…that is an achievement. Our players turned up thinking they were going to win that game. And I think Ange’s confidence from winning and sheer belief from that experience was able to translate to the players to do that. I am Poch’s number one fan, but he would have to motivate in a different way. He couldn’t at the point of being with us transmit ‘winner’ energy, because he had never won anything.
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I think we won more because of the quality of opposition in that we were evenly matched. I think it had little to do with Ange winning things elsewhere.
 
Robspur12 said:
I think we won more because of the quality of opposition in that we were evenly matched. I think it had little to do with Ange winning things elsewhere.
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Ok….I’m not sure how else to say it. There is every chance we could have won that tournament anyway. But after the season we had, with a broken down squad, to arrive in that final believing we were going to win, against a club synonymous with winning…I think Ange had something to do with that. The fact that he knew to double down on ‘I always win things in my second year’ is Jose in his prime sort of stuff. The players absolutely bought into that. The sheer arrogance of it. When have Tottenham ever had arrogance about winning things in the last 40 years? I think we needed it.

I think it’s easy to say now that we’ve won it that we probably were always going to win it. But to win that final without our 2 key creative players and Bergval, having easily swept Bodo aside like it was nothing, when they’ve proved how good a side they are in the CL this year…having gone to Frankfurt including Ekitike needing a win and winning…we have been knocked out to worse teams with their manager being in prison. At so many times we might have not progressed.

I do find it quite strange for a club to be a laughing stock for not winning things to actually win something and then all of sudden it was sort of an easy thing to do. In another world, the pressure on us in that final to win the game because without it we had no Europe and the season being a waste would have seen our players wilt. But they didn’t. They believed they were going to win, and they did it. We hadn’t had actual belief that we were going to get over the line in a long time.
 
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