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The Defensive Midfielder

Agreed about midfield being key. Also agreed about the variety we had with Modric / VdV / Bale / etc.

However, I don't think we're actually all that bad. Watching the highlights from the Palace game, there were actually a fair few Spurs chances...and GOOD chances too, the type that you'd expect a decent no.9 to score. The problem being that we don't have a decent no.9 at the moment. So everything was blazed wide or over the bar.

Sure, there's plenty of room for improvement, but I still think that we'd get a lot more points with either a pacey striker with a powerful shot or a beast who can rough up defenders. Especially at home. While we're not going to get anywhere dreaming of a van Persie or a Diego Costa, even the likes of Cisse and Bony would be improvements!
 
Maltese Falcon said:
Just as Clinton is famously pointed out that at the end of the day, it's only the economy that matters, in football there is only one area that really matters - MIDFIELD. Love him or hate him, Wenger has long known this and it is no surprise that he is willing to forgo on defenders and strikers but will never pass up the opportunity to improve his midfield. And this policy has seen them hog top 4 forever! Yes you will not win the league (which you need a complete team for) but having a top class midfield WILL guarantee you champions league year after year.

It's not a surprise that our period of success coincided with the best midfield ever. People forget we made CL with Peter **** Crouch, a clown goalkeeper with butter fingers, and with Corluka and Benny as full backs and an assortment of mediocre centre halves when Ledley was not fit to play! But because of the midfield we flourished. That midfield had a key characteristic: players who were world (or at least international) class - Bale, VDV and Modric - and a supporting cast of water carriers in Lennon, Huddlestone, Sandro and Parker. They complemented the world class players providing graft and presence to the genius of the first three. Plus the overall movement off the ball was outstanding.

Therefore, for all the discussions on other areas, it's the midfield we need to fix and that is our problem

1. None of the current batch of midfielders are good enough for top 4; Eriksen is the most likely candidate to challenge that but he still does not take a game by the scruff of the neck. He may come good in a couple of years as may Bentaleb; but that is a big "may"... Mason is a tidy player but hasn;t shown anything to suggest anything more than mid table quality. Chadli, Strambouli, Paulinho, Capoue... incredible to think we wasted our Bale inheritance on a shopping spree for these and as for Lamela... my opinion is very clear. If he continues to be a waste of space after 6 months, I have little optimism that things will change any time soon.

2. The CL team complemented each other brilliantly. Parker/Huddlestone/Sandro did the dirty work, Modric provided the industry, Bale the pace & power and Lennon the trickery whereas VDV provided the invention and goals. You look at the current batch and what do they stand out in? They all seem to be variations of a theme - jack of all trades but master of none. You could recognise Bale from his runs and shooting, Modric from the passing etc without needing to see their number? Nowadays, they all seem to be doing exactly the same - predictable - thing. No one is particularly good at winning the ball, no one has outstanding pace, no one has the inventiveness to see a pass that the opposition cannot...

3. The third thing with the current crop is that their ball skills and movement are simply not good enough. Their ball control is sub-standard as can be seen by the passes that go astray when trying to play at a fast pace and by the number of times they lose the ball even under no pressure. They cannot predict a pass into space, they are too static and totally unable to move out of their slow paced comfort zone. And as for their movement ???!!! Why do the scum rarely come a cropper against the likes of Palace? Because the only way to break these teams is by constant movement into space. When have we last consistently dominated "lower table" teams? Don't ask me cause I have no idea. THAT is our problem and the reason we suffer so badly at the Lane.

What's the silver lining? I must admit I see mainly clouds on the horizon. Top 4 in the near future? you must be having a laugh. We need a total midfield overhaul with a decent holding midfielder, someone to pull the strings in midfield (how could we possibly have looked the other way when Song became available?) and pacey wide players (I would recall Pritchard and throw him in the deep end; he already shows levels of skill that none of the others have)

Problem is we are back 10 years ago playing catch up...
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Yes, midfield is where the modern game of football is mostly won or loss (a really good striking pair can cover up a lot of cracks, see Keane/Berbs for us, Suarez & co for Pool), to the points

1. Disagree completely, Eriksen absolutely is good enough, Lennon was good enough for the same midfield you credit with our success and Lamela has the talent though unfortunately seems to be one of those "unsuited to the league" types

2. This ... to me, this is your main point. the Balance is all wrong, no quality experience in lineup, no LW option, missing another creative type, low on pace options.

3. Disagree, our players can control and pass. Where Wengers side is better than us is in having a system, knowing where a player is going to run to, hence where to make the pass. Look at our midfield, a lot of the pressure you talk about happens because a player receives the ball, looks up and there is no pass on. Our problem is not on the ball, it's what the players who don't have the ball do. Wenger can carry mediocre midfielders because the system is well drilled and players know which run will be on, hence which pass. This is what I hoped Poch could/would fix early but his tinkering is making worse

4. I would add a 4th, our success (and improvement) came with a strait line improvement in DMs, Palacios -> Parker -> Sandro, I just don't see Capoue/Stambouli as better than an in form Sandro and that has hurt us, and our spine.

We are not 10 years back (can someone please dig up our squad from 2004 just as a reality check), we are stumbling badly for 3 years now, and in my opinion its way more the manager than the squad. Like you, I don't see that changing anytime soon.
 
harr1984 said:
What sort of player is Onomah?
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That's an exaggeration at this stage.

He is a 6ft rangy player who has lots of skill, beats men from deep, has a great passing range and gets up and down. Also has good end product.

IMO he is superior to Winks despite being younger, but Stop! Hammer time
 
LCLC said:
That's an exaggeration at this stage.

He is a 6ft rangy player who has lots of skill, beats men from deep, has a great passing range and gets up and down. Also has good end product.

IMO he is superior to Winks despite being younger, but Stop! Hammer time
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Interesting, thanks. Is he a CM then, deep playmaker type?
 
Raziel said:
3. Disagree, our players can control and pass. Where Wengers side is better than us is in having a system, knowing where a player is going to run to, hence where to make the pass. Look at our midfield, a lot of the pressure you talk about happens because a player receives the ball, looks up and there is no pass on. Our problem is not on the ball, it's what the players who don't have the ball do. Wenger can carry mediocre midfielders because the system is well drilled and players know which run will be on, hence which pass. This is what I hoped Poch could/would fix early but his tinkering is making worse
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Fergie's ManU sides were the same -- mediocre players could be stuck into an extremely well-drilled midfield (admittedly sprinkled with world class players like Giggs and Scholes) and look a damn sight better than they are. I'm thinking Darren Fletcher here.
 
LCLC said:
We aren't 10 years back. Mason and Bentelab are quality Young players with good technique and drive - Dembele should be but he seems to have faded through his hip. They need some experience and know how along side - likes of Milner deJong or schneiderlin could help provide that and give us some balance.

The major problems are the fact out front 3 all want the ball to feet and like to play neat and tidy football - eriksen has a bit of class about him, but it's no surprise to me that when kane came in at 10 we played better as we had someone who can turn on it, drive, commit players and get into the box. Erisken is one of our best players but we need different options along side him to provide balance and width.

Also we are completely hamstrung by the fact we have no pace in behind. When Soldado plays 9 its all near triangles and one twos, yet it has to be perfect for us to score and play well. If we had a benteke type roughing defenders, waiting on the shoulder, it would give the team a whole new dynamic.

Mark my words we have some excellent footballers in our midfield (erisken, Mason, bentelab) but they need a bit of experience along side and also some out balls and different options for them to work with. A Pacy winger (even a lennon of 4 years ago) and a mobile powerful number 9 and we would see our team start to pose some real problems for other teams because our midfield will utilise them
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The bold part is our main problem IMO. There is absolutely no movement in behind the defence! We are too static, and the strikers are almost always standing with their backs to the goal! We almost NEVER play passes into space, only pass to feet, and that slows everything down. The few times we actually take an opportunity to counter-attack or play into space, we are dangerous! Our main problem is not the players, but the style of play. We have a lot of talent, but they are not being utilized to their potential.
 
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Maltese Falcon said:
Just as Clinton is famously pointed out that at the end of the day, it's only the economy that matters, in football there is only one area that really matters - MIDFIELD. Love him or hate him, Wenger has long known this and it is no surprise that he is willing to forgo on defenders and strikers but will never pass up the opportunity to improve his midfield. And this policy has seen them hog top 4 forever! Yes you will not win the league (which you need a complete team for) but having a top class midfield WILL guarantee you champions league year after year.
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Eriksen and Lamela have the ability to be as good as Modric, VDV and Bale in 2/3 years time, they are both only 22 and will both become world class players, no doubt about it. Bentaleb has the ability to become our new Modric as well. Patience is the key.
 
Though I do agree with a lot of what the OP says. Midfield is where the battles are ultimately won and lost, and whilst our midfield is probably the most functional part of our team right now, that's more because our strikers and defenders have been so ****. Haven't been convinced by Stambouli yet, Capoue doesn't appear up to the task, Dembele has gone massively off the rails in the last year or two, whereas Paulinho is our worst midfielder of the past decade.

On the wings we're even worse - Lennon is Lennon, a very effective player at times but not consistent enough to be more than a squad player at a top club. And sadly, he's our best winger. Chadli has chipped in with a few goals this season and surprised me as I previously thought he was completely useless, but I am still not convinced he's good enough to be anything more than a squad player who makes appearances in the odd cup game. Townsend has potential but so far we haven't been able to truly harness it and his apparent lack of footballing intelligence is a major concern. And then there's Lamela, who quite simply, is not a winger and should not be playing there at all.

Since the sales of Modric, Van Der Vaart and Kranjcar, we've generally had a massive lack of players in central midfield who can control a football in a tight space and play quick, accurate passes. We now have Eriksen, Mason and Bentaleb, who are the only three in our squad that can play anything resembling that kind of football, Soldado too if we play him in midfield. None of those four are natural DMs (even if Bentaleb and Mason are getting better at this part of their game) and none of them are blessed with any real pace. Out of the three natural midfielders, the oldest of those three is Mason, at 23, who only has 10 Premier League appearances to his name.

But despite beating the drum about it all summer, the squad lacks players with technical skill who can run with the ball - http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/6478-The-Winger-Thread - if we don't sign players with pace and technical skill to dribble past opponents, we're going to create far too many "half" chances, and not enough clear goalscoring opportunities to win games. In the big games, we've got the choice now of playing high up the pitch and leaving us open to getting torn to pieces by skilled attacking players who have too much space, (Liverpool, Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea), or defending deep to soak up the pressure but not having the pace and technical skill to effectively counter when the opposition commit men forward (Arsenal, as well as Liverpool + Chelsea away last season). Getting a top class winger is as big a priority as CF and CB in my opinion.
 
Midfield?

I seem to remember the 2006/07 season being one of our most enoyable in the past ten years, infact it pretty much summed up the Tottenham Way and there wasn't much in that midfield to get excited about.

I don't disagree that midfield is hugely important but back then we had something we don't have now, goals, 100+ to be precise.

Sadly it is true what Kompany said after Emirates Marketing Project's win against Bayern, you need special players like Ageuro, someone who can pull something out of nothing. We had in that in Bale but that is now the past, first we find the team, then we find THAT player.
 
spurs' magna carter said:
Midfield?

I seem to remember the 2006/07 season being one of our most enoyable in the past ten years, infact it pretty much summed up the Tottenham Way and there wasn't much in that midfield to get excited about.

I don't disagree that midfield is hugely important but back then we had something we don't have now, goals, 100+ to be precise.

Sadly it is true what Kompany said after Emirates Marketing Project's win against Bayern, you need special players like Ageuro, someone who can pull something out of nothing. We had in that in Bale but that is now the past, first we find the team, then we find THAT player.
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And that is true - every team has them BUT there is a difference between relying on one player and using that one player as part of a team. Man ****ty performed brilliantly tonight and without Aguero - perfect example of the latter and not the former.
 
DHSF said:
And that is true - every team has them BUT there is a difference between relying on one player and using that one player as part of a team. Man ****ty performed brilliantly tonight and without Aguero - perfect example of the latter and not the former.
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Very true. But lets be honest any team is a hell of a lot weaker without that star player. Everytime I watch Barca without Messi they look so much more ordinary....
 
The difference in quality on the all from Mason and Bentaleb to our current second choice central midfielders is just too great. (I'll continue to reserve judgement on Stambouli though so slight exception there).

We need more players with real quality on the ball for those positions and we need to get rid of some of those that just aren't up to it. Not necessarily bad players, but too similar and not suited for what it seems to me Poch wants to do.
 
spurs' magna carter said:
Midfield?

I seem to remember the 2006/07 season being one of our most enoyable in the past ten years, infact it pretty much summed up the Tottenham Way and there wasn't much in that midfield to get excited about.

I don't disagree that midfield is hugely important but back then we had something we don't have now, goals, 100+ to be precise.

Sadly it is true what Kompany said after Emirates Marketing Project's win against Bayern, you need special players like Ageuro, someone who can pull something out of nothing. We had in that in Bale but that is now the past, first we find the team, then we find THAT player.
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I'm sure we would be much better than we currently are with Berba vintage 06/07. If that striker is available for us to sign we should sign him regardless of what we do with our midfield.
 
braineclipse said:
The difference in quality on the all from Mason and Bentaleb to our current second choice central midfielders is just too great. (I'll continue to reserve judgement on Stambouli though so slight exception there).

We need more players with real quality on the ball for those positions and we need to get rid of some of those that just aren't up to it. Not necessarily bad players, but too similar and not suited for what it seems to me Poch wants to do.
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Completely agree. I said it the other week about Paulinho when he came on for Mason, our second string prefer to run with the ball instead of pass it. We really need another senior player who can move the ball around like these two and then we can sell Paulinho, Dembele and Capoue.
 
If ever a game showed how much our midfield needs to improve, then today was it.

We simply cannot continue to play without a holding midfielder away against the top team; they will run straight through the middle onto goal.
 
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