The Current State of Spurs (and some sympathy for Thomas Frank)

[thfcsteff]

Something I’ve been thinking about is that Frank is actually the perfect coach for the ENIC ethos, in that you make the ‘right’ plays over and over at the ‘right times’ and over the long term it pays off for you. My opinion is that the way Frank thinks about football is the way Levy thought about the transfer market. Eg you have a price for this player, you don’t really compromise. You don’t take the big swing. So you make a number of smaller moves. And over the longer term maybe those players all improve around the same time.

Compared to Liverpool. Who made big swings. Fist with eg selling Torres and getting Carroll and Suarez. And then again to get Allison and Van Dijk. Maybe other clubs wouldn’t have valued them as highly, but Liverpool made sure they got them. Because rather than judging the exact ‘right’ value for a player, they calculated that the extent to which getting world class missing pieces would elevate the club and win them trophies was an intangible that you couldn’t as easily fit into a model. Equally Ange took a big swing to win the Europa. I’m not bringing this up to debate the merits of that decision, merely to say it was a big swing, a gamble that ended up paying off. But completely out of sync with the ENIC ethos that values stable long term decision making.

So all of that to say, I can see why they hired Frank. I think maybe he fits with the club extremely well because of the culture, regardless of individuals that have a spot in the org. Because I think whoever we’ve lost will get replaced by people that also likely suit the culture of the org.

Absolutely.
At the time he was hired I said he was the perfect manager for the way we behaved as a club (everything you've outlined)...which is where I could find sympathy for him. It's a bit like Sissoko really IMO. Sissoko was always Sissoko. He was never going to be Eriksen. However, what Sissoko was good at was being him - strong, direct, disruptive. I always thought one of Poch's greatest tricks was getting a tune out of him, especially as he was an end of window signing to 'appease' for not getting Mane (in itself somewhat ludicrous really)...

Maybe the diff is I do believe Frank presents as having a higher ceiling in his profession, and I (have to) remain hopeful that this gets proven.

Really glad this discussion has had legs. I started it because I felt I needed to take a wider overview as to why such an obviously talented and decent guy as Frank is having such a hard time; no-one needs to look too far I suppose.

Some great views BTW and a conversation I think will continue to be important as we approach a window which is laced with intrigue. You'd think targets have been identified and spoken with; what does the Paratici noise mean in such context?

Happy Christmas and COYS!

 

[thfcsteff]

We've also gone from someone who knew what he was doing (30 years in the game, including Prague and Rangers as steps up to us), to someone who used her trust fund to support her husband's crap design football boots, and someone who used his trust fund to tinkle it all against the wall in Argentine golf clubs.

Tell me more mate, interested in that history and am ignorant of it.

 

[Raziel]

I'm convinced as soon as we have mopo wrapped up for the summer franks gone and a caretaker is coming in (Mason?!)

Till that point I believe the board don't see the point in sacking him with no new manager announcement.

If that's the case, I'd like to see us be bold

- Tie up any contracts
- Have an input into January transfers
- Look for someone with a decent rep to do caretaker role (not Mason)

 

[Gutter Boy]

Tell me more mate, interested in that history and am ignorant of it.

Just they are nepo babies who have never really done anything in their own right. She's known for being Craig Johnson's WAG and using daddy's money to fund his Predator boot folly. And he's just be largely absent for decades being a playboy in Argentina. Its not like they've had substantive roles in other Tavistock companies, cutting their teeth running the restaurant chains etc. I dont see they have any credentials for running a football club. They are just some old crook's kids, just like the random Trump kids playing at international relations.

 

[Baleforce]

Just they are nepo babies who have never really done anything in their own right. She's known for being Craig Johnson's WAG and using daddy's money to fund his Predator boot folly. And he's just be largely absent for decades being a playboy in Argentina. It’s not like they've had substantive roles in other Tavistock companies, cutting their teeth running the restaurant chains etc. I dont see they have any credentials for running a football club. They are just some old crook's kids, just like the random Trump kids playing at international relations.

Folly?

Predators are one of the most successful boot ranges of all time.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Folly?

Predators are one of the most successful boot ranges of all time.

They are brick though. They've never worked - the ribbing gets clogged up in about 2 seconds and the boots fall apart in about 10. They had great marketing, but they've never been a players' boot

 

[Baleforce]

They are brick though. They've never worked - the ribbing gets clogged up in about 2 seconds and the boots fall apart in about 10. They had great marketing, but they've never been a players' boot

Becks did ok with them.

But yeah, was probably always about money, and Adidas made plenty from them.

 

[tommysvr]

I tried to put it in the Frank thread, possibly explained it badly

When Frank took over we had won 2 home games in 2025, one of them was against Southampton, Fans were already annoyed at losing almost everything home game and paying £60 plus for the privilege of doing it

Adding to the losing it seemed like it was deemed OK to be losing these games, it seemed like the players/managers were just turning up like a pub team on a Sunday with zero prep or care and the manager was calling out fans publically for daring to criticise it.

We were awful

Frank takes over and the fans are already on edge about the home form and a couple of defeats and they are on his back already, that's not to say he's completely blameless, but he seems to be getting the flack for our home form for the entire year.

Losing every week becomes habit and it's a hard one to break, whoever took over would be facing the same sort of issues.

Just confirming, are you saying these losses are all the fault of the previous manager? It feels dumb just writing that as a question but given there are people who are still seriously blaming injuries on him, maybe that is what you're suggesting.

 

[Yiddo]

It has 100%

- Number one is there is no target for fan frustration, the booing that players and manager get now, would have been (mostly) directed to Levy/Levy out, the only reason Ange's team made to the end of the season last year was fans instead of turning it on team/manager, vented/protested against Levy.
- The second is going to be harder to see, Levy put huge stock in European qualification every year, hence certain things were predictable, e.g. Frank would probably be gone by now, and we would spend in January to correct course. Levy could be very decisive when needed, e.g. Nuno

I am genuinely worried that Frank is likely out of all cup competitions and we may keep a lame duck manager until end of season (that worry would not happen under Levy)



Same, the timing of "we are going to invest" statements when the window just closed doesn't inspire confidence.

I think people misinterpret the Nuno sacking. The reason Nuno was sacked IMO is because the manager we wanted in the summer who wasn’t ready, then became ready to take over and we were just using any excuse to get rid of him. Nuno was temporary from the get go, if Conte was never in the running we would have either not hired Nuno in the first place or he would have kept his job until at least Christmas.

 

[kb 1984]

I'm convinced as soon as we have mopo wrapped up for the summer franks gone and a caretaker is coming in (Mason?!)

Till that point I believe the board don't see the point in sacking him with no new manager announcement.

What has he achieved that he deserves another chance with us. We really do have to move on from Poch how many big clubs wanted him after blue scum sacked him the mighty USA no one else were interested

I loved some of the football under him but he was like so many others a failure. In my humble opinion Poch isn't the answer. If we are going to change manger I would go for Glasner & I would do it know to make sure we get him. I think we will stick with Frank not sure DL would have

 

[Baleforce]

What has he achieved that he deserves another chance with us. We really do have to move on from Poch how many big clubs wanted him after blue scum sacked him the mighty USA no one else were interested

I loved some of the football under him but he was like so many others a failure. In my humble opinion Poch isn't the answer. If we are going to change manger I would go for Glasner & I would do it know to make sure we get him. I think we will stick with Frank not sure DL would haven’t

Don’t agree on Glasner, happy with TF for now.

Agree on MP though, as good as things were for a time he’s been struggling for 7 years, he’s not even got a proper job right now, how on earth would he walk back into the PL?

 

[kb 1984]

Don’t agree on Glasner, happy with TF for now.

Agree on MP though, as good as things were for a time he’s been struggling for 7 years, he’s not even got a proper job right now, how on earth would he walk back into the PL?

I don't think they should sack him either give him the season then decide.

why wouldn't you go with Glasner

 

[Baleforce]

I don't think they should sack him either give him the season then decide.

why wouldn't you go with Glasner

He’s shown no more than Frank, Palace are a much bigger club than Brentford, Franks has achieved more imo.