The case for the defence

[thfcsteff]

Yup, even if Lange et al were looking to tighten up the ship as they believed AngeBall to be too hung-ho it was an insane decision; as these are the 4 leakiest defences in EPL during Postecoglou’s 76 game tenure:

West Ham 136 goals conceded
Wolves 134
Tottenham 124
Brentford 122
Brighton 121
Fulham 115
Bournemouth 113
Forest 113
Villa 112
Man U 112

Not so much a data lead as a Danish mates approach!

I mean...they're DATA GUYS!!!

 

[SteveAWOL]

I mean...they're DATA Danish GUYS!!!

FTFY

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Hahaha I will now never be able to NOT see Lange as that character

Sums up how the club has been "directed" under his stewardship

 

[Robspur12]

...scary to see the next team with the most concessions in that list......I mean...defensively solid mana...etc, etc...

Really strange decision to appoint based on that stat- I always thought their reasoning was that Frank would make us more defensively sound!

 

[Yiddo]

Everyone said we struggled last season due to our defensive injuries, the same brick is happening even when they are fit the majority of the season. The duo of Romero and Porro are absolutely disastrous defensively. I'm sure at least 50% of the goals we have conceded over the past 2 / 3 seasons have been early crosses to the back post where they should be.

 

[thfcsteff]

Really strange decision to appoint based on that stat- I always thought their reasoning was that Frank would make us more defensively sound!

I mean, there has to be more context? Right? Bonkers...

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

I mean, there has to be more context? Right? Bonkers...

The whole thing has been such a sh*tshow since Poch was sacked, honestly.

There's no joined up thinking at all. It isn't just about appointing a head-coach. What sort of players does that coach need to make their preferred system and style work? What sort of coaching staff do you need?

If I take Ange as an example, i am not his biggest fan as you know but if you recall i had conversations with you about the fact that while i don't think a serious club should be making that sort of "punt" (we are continually trying to be "clever" attempting to outbox the investment in playing staff we are willing to put in) there was no thought put in to how to make Ange successful.

One of the big risks with Ange is injuries. It took time at every club he was at for the coaches and physios to adapt. The demands of the PL exacerbate that. While Ange was content to come in alone for me we take his key staff at Celtic, some of the fitness and physio staff used to working with him whether at celtic or other previous clubs.

Watched a lot of videos on his tactics and the quick switch from deep lying playmaker out to the wings is critical. Bissouma played that role combined with Maddison dropping deep and initially it worked but Maddison got injured and Bissouma is an inconsistant performer.

A specialist player for that role was never brought in. Look at someone like Anderson at Forest or Wharton at Palace. Would have been ideal. That is just one example.

But then you lurch from Ange's style to appoint Frank. Straight away he doesn't want Johnson for example. I imagine Xavi was on the list before Frank was considered too.....just WTF

 

[SteveAWOL]

The whole thing has been such a sh*tshow since Poch was sacked, honestly.

There's no joined up thinking at all. It isn't just about appointing a head-coach. What sort of players does that coach need to make their preferred system and style work? What sort of coaching staff do you need?

If I take Ange as an example, i am not his biggest fan as you know but if you recall i had conversations with you about the fact that while i don't think a serious club should be making that sort of "punt" (we are continually trying to be "clever" attempting to outbox the investment in playing staff we are willing to put in) there was no thought put in to how to make Ange successful.

One of the big risks with Ange is injuries. It took time at every club he was at for the coaches and physios to adapt. The demands of the PL exacerbate that. While Ange was content to come in alone for me we take his key staff at Celtic, some of the fitness and physio staff used to working with him whether at celtic or other previous clubs.

Watched a lot of videos on his tactics and the quick switch from deep lying playmaker out to the wings is critical. Bissouma played that role combined with Maddison dropping deep and initially it worked but Maddison got injured and Bissouma is an inconsistant performer.

A specialist player for that role was never brought in. Look at someone like Anderson at Forest or Wharton at Palace. Would have been ideal. That is just one example.

But then you lurch from Ange's style to appoint Frank. Straight away he doesn't want Johnson for example. I imagine Xavi was on the list before Frank was considered too.....just WTF

Ange’s habit of not taking any of his coaching staff with him from one club to the next does seem a bit of strange and a stark contrast to Pochettino and Conte who took their trusted lieutenants with them everywhere they went.

Whilst refreshing some of the coaching staff occasionally (like Ferguson and Guardiola) so training routines don’t become too repetitive is optimal, to go to the opposite extreme and have to work with a completely new staff every couple of years does seem perhaps part of his undoing; if he had brought along some of his own trusted fitness people (like you say) then surely they’d have identified the glaring holes in our underfunded medical department and avoided these chronic injury woes which have plagued our squad for 2.5 years.

As for appointing Frank instead of the likes of Iraola, De Zerbi or Silva when all of those coaches have superior PL defensive records to him in addition to being a better stylistic fit for Spurs, I can only assume was purely due to his long standing friendship with Lange; as there’s absolutely no data which supports his appointment and the way he had Brentford playing didn’t pass the eye test either.

 

[thfcsteff]

The whole thing has been such a sh*tshow since Poch was sacked, honestly.

There's no joined up thinking at all. It isn't just about appointing a head-coach. What sort of players does that coach need to make their preferred system and style work? What sort of coaching staff do you need?

If I take Ange as an example, i am not his biggest fan as you know but if you recall i had conversations with you about the fact that while i don't think a serious club should be making that sort of "punt" (we are continually trying to be "clever" attempting to outbox the investment in playing staff we are willing to put in) there was no thought put in to how to make Ange successful.

One of the big risks with Ange is injuries. It took time at every club he was at for the coaches and physios to adapt. The demands of the PL exacerbate that. While Ange was content to come in alone for me we take his key staff at Celtic, some of the fitness and physio staff used to working with him whether at celtic or other previous clubs.

Watched a lot of videos on his tactics and the quick switch from deep lying playmaker out to the wings is critical. Bissouma played that role combined with Maddison dropping deep and initially it worked but Maddison got injured and Bissouma is an inconsistant performer.

A specialist player for that role was never brought in. Look at someone like Anderson at Forest or Wharton at Palace. Would have been ideal. That is just one example.

But then you lurch from Ange's style to appoint Frank. Straight away he doesn't want Johnson for example. I imagine Xavi was on the list before Frank was considered too.....just WTF

I wholeheartedly agree (as you said, I think we've had this conversation before).
And yes. Eze and Xavi were on lists which predated Frank.

 

[Bishop]

Everyone said we struggled last season due to our defensive injuries, the same brick is happening even when they are fit the majority of the season. The duo of Romero and Porro are absolutely disastrous defensively. I'm sure at least 50% of the goals we have conceded over the past 2 / 3 seasons have been early crosses to the back post where they should be.

It's the on the bench not available fallacy. player quality improves the longer that we don't see them. The same things was being said about Solanke earlier this season when he was out injured, as if when he was back all would be well. Well he's been back and guess what, he's not actually that good.

Injured or not injured the squad isn't particularly good. Yes there are some key players missing, but really it's only the pair of Kulu and Maddison who make a tangible difference. They are the players whose qualities and attributes we haven't been able to replicate. Plus Udogie and thats largely just down to him being the only actual LB we had and the balance playing him allows.

In terms of the defence I don't blame it solely on Romero and Porro although they play their part. For me the balance isn't quite right in terms of assignments and attributes. The FBs are actually WBs with questionable defensive qualities, Porro obviously who really can't defend and whose positioning is pretty atrocious, Udogie started excellently but we haven't seen good form from him for 2 years now, yes injury impacted but still the same end result. Romero is rash but VDV is just as big of an issue. Great at chasing back (usually when he has got his positioning wrong in the first place), but actual bog standard defending? He's quite poor, gets turned easily, dribbled past soo easily, terrible in the air and box defending position is all over the place. Watch back any goals we concede from inside the box and then ask yourself "where is VDV?" He's usually somewhere random but not where the ball or shot came from.

It's so cliche but this team and squad needs gutting. If we don't go down we need to seriously look at our CB partnership, it doesn't work and we need to look at our FB situation as they doesn't really work either.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

It's the on the bench not available fallacy. player quality improves the longer that we don't see them. The same things was being said about Solanke earlier this season when he was out injured, as if when he was back all would be well. Well he's been back and guess what, he's not actually that good.

Injured or not injured the squad isn't particularly good. Yes there are some key players missing, but really it's only the pair of Kulu and Maddison who make a tangible difference. They are the players whose qualities and attributes we haven't been able to replicate. Plus Udogie and thats largely just down to him being the only actual LB we had and the balance playing him allows.

In terms of the defence I don't blame it solely on Romero and Porro although they play their part. For me the balance isn't quite right in terms of assignments and attributes. The FBs are actually WBs with questionable defensive qualities, Porro obviously who really can't defend and whose positioning is pretty atrocious, Udogie started excellently but we haven't seen good form from him for 2 years now, yes injury impacted but still the same end result. Romero is rash but VDV is just as big of an issue. Great at chasing back (usually when he has got his positioning wrong in the first place), but actual bog standard defending? He's quite poor, gets turned easily, dribbled past soo easily, terrible in the air and box defending position is all over the place. Watch back any goals we concede from inside the box and then ask yourself "where is VDV?" He's usually somewhere random but not where the ball or shot came from.

It's so cliche but this team and squad needs gutting. If we don't go down we need to seriously look at our CB partnership, it doesn't work and we need to look at our FB situation as they doesn't really work either.

I said my priority in the summer and January were a pair of decent CBs. Never rated Romero or VDV. Romero was passable in a back 3 under Conte as you had the distribution he brings and others to cover for his random deserting of his post and rash lunges. The amount of cards the guy picks up - just stand your ground FFS.