Team mentality

[vkn17]

Hi guys,

Is anyone else concerned about our mentality to sit back and let the opposition team play us off the pitch when we are leading?
Yesterday's performance after 20 min was shocking, and I can't remember last time when a visiting team made us chase the game that much at WHL. This behaviour has been happening all season, even more so than previous season which is worrying.

I am not suggesting that we should apply same tactics throughout the game, but sitting back like we do, we are going to get punished by any decent team that knows how to score (Liverpool is not one of them)

If this is so obvious to me, and probably many of us, why is it not to AVB. And if it is, why don't we see any signs of change yet?

Please discuss

 

[paxtonwolf]

It is a little worrying, but on the flipside its good that we are actually taking the lead in so many games. I'd much rather be in a position of defending a goal lead than chasing it.
But I do agree that second half yesterday was poor, if you had nto of known, you would have thought we playing at Anfield trying to defend a 2-1 lead, not WHL

 

[Icelander]

Well, this should actually suit us better, as so many on here have pointed out, with the pace of Lennon, Bale and Defoe on the counter. The only problem is, we could only manage to hoof the ball up the pitch yesterday once we won it back, and with Defoe battling Agger and Skrtel it was always a lost cause.

Why couldn't we hit them harder on the break?

 

[NWND]

I'm not actually sure its an intentional tactic, I think a lot of our players were very tired in the second half yesterday and to be fair Liverpool are very good keepers of the ball (much like Swansea). The best tactics against teams like this (as Chelsea showed when dumping Barca out the champions league last season) is to let them have the ball and only really go for them to get it off them when they reach your penalty area and try and hit them on the break. Obviously the hitting on the break bit is hard if you're not on tip top form and your central midfield duo clearly aren't fully fit, but you know what last night was tough as Liverpool are a very good ball-retention team, full of good passers, as Rogers likes to set his teams up.

I think we played them perfectly 2bh and we showed against West Ham we will attack teams for 90 mins if we feel its the best thing to do and we have the legs and form to do it.

 

[DHSF]

I think it is a tactic. I just think its a tactic gone wrong. Nothing too much wrong if you go in the lead at 2-0 but if the opposition set a good five to ten minute period it becomes difficult for us to go out of that mentality and into a non defensive one.

Im not happy about it and yeah yeah people will say its one that we can use to full of effect with the players we have but unfortunately we dont have the defenders for it. Also why the fudge we playing that tactic at home? We are the fudgein home team.

I cant imagine a player like Gallas is weak mentally when under the cosh (maybe when he is crying about stuff after a game though)

 

[diego_maradona]

I dont think it was to do with tactics. It was to do with a lack of leadership and responsibility. Nobody wants the ball. We've lost King, Modric, VdV, and at the moment Ade, Ekotto and Kaboul. 6 massively calming influences on the team capable of holding the ball under pressure. Right now we have nobody who is comfortable in possession of the ball when put under pressure.

Gallas and nearly all the centre backs give me a heart attack when a player closes them down. they are petrified. Lloris doesn't fill me with confidence when he plays it wide to Vertonghen, Naughton or Walker. He puts them under pressure when occasionally he needs to get rid.

We need better ball players.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

I think the trouble with a pairing in central defence like last night, we've not giving ourselves the platform to relieve the pressure through being able to push up and knock it about.

If we have two from Kaboul, Verts and Caulker playing central defence , Benny at left-back and a hold up player, up top like Ade, then we wont see us dominated in possesion like we were last night . Liverpool were impressive with the ball it has to be said but our personnel or lack of the right ones was also a contributing factor as to why we weren't .

 

[Pirate55]

I dont think it is about players at all. It is a definite tactic AVB employs. By bringing all 11 back for corners and free kicks we invite pressure on ourselves as there is no "out ball". Ridiculous tactic at home and not much better away. We got away with it at Man U, Southampton and at home to Liverpool, by virtue of sheer luck. We didnt get away with it at Arse, (admittedly we dont know what would have happened if we had all 11 on the pitch) or at home to Chelsea, Norwich, WBA.

I believe we should keep attacking teams. The crowd at WHL were chanting "attack attack attack" yesterday, so presumeably they think the same. To me, one of the problems is Lennon. Yes he scored one of his really infrequent goals yesterday. But reading the comments in the thread of players performance, everyone mentions his great defensive work yesterday but not once did he try and attack his man - and it was only Downing ffs. He should be ready made for a skinning. But did Lennon try and exploit his lack of pace? We really need him to start playing a much more attacking role - particularly at home.

Playing ropeadope football and not being able to keep possession is a recipe for disaster.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

I dont think it is about players at all. It is a definite tactic AVB employs. By bringing all 11 back for corners and free kicks we invite pressure on ourselves as there is no "out ball". Ridiculous tactic at home and not much better away. We got away with it at Man U, Southampton and at home to Liverpool, by virtue of sheer luck. We didnt get away with it at Arse, (admittedly we dont know what would have happened if we had all 11 on the pitch) or at home to Chelsea, Norwich, WBA.

I believe we should keep attacking teams. The crowd at WHL were chanting "attack attack attack" yesterday, so presumeably they think the same. To me, one of the problems is Lennon. Yes he scored one of his really infrequent goals yesterday. But reading the comments in the thread of players performance, everyone mentions his great defensive work yesterday but not once did he try and attack his man - and it was only Downing ffs. He should be ready made for a skinning. But did Lennon try and exploit his lack of pace? We really need him to start playing a much more attacking role - particularly at home.

Playing ropeadope football and not being able to keep possession is a recipe for disaster.

I agree about your corner and free kick observations , been saying them myself for a long time . Even Fergie and Wenger do this , Ive never really understood this myself . And even if you are going have a short speedster like Lennon coming back for corners, at least have him on the edge of our penatly box rather than on the goal line .


I don't believe its an AVB tactic to sit on a lead or to hang on for a point , he's just not got a back line to push up in the latter stages of a game when the likes of Gallas is leggy and when the opponent is throwing players forward in search of an equaliser. I got told by a Chav mate he lost points in a few games at the Bridge due to not settling for what he had, most notably the the home game with the Goons when it were 3-3 with 10 mins to go and he were pressing them with a high line in search of a winner.

Another axe I have to grind is our throw-ins , we need more short throw-ins but I understand, that with the confidence evaporated in playing a passing game in the final third of the match, the temptation to just throw it down the line is going to be there.

AVB with a fast, fit backline and we will see a different last 30 minutes to our matches, I'm pretty sure of it .

 

[Spursalot]

I think it is a tactic. I just think its a tactic gone wrong. Nothing too much wrong if you go in the lead at 2-0 but if the opposition set a good five to ten minute period it becomes difficult for us to go out of that mentality and into a non defensive one.

Im not happy about it and yeah yeah people will say its one that we can use to full of effect with the players we have but unfortunately we dont have the defenders for it. Also why the fudge we playing that tactic at home? We are the fudgein home team.

I cant imagine a player like Gallas is weak mentally when under the cosh (maybe when he is crying about stuff after a game though)

Honestly i think it is a good tactic that is being carried out badly.


I highly doubt it is within the tactic for the players to start misplacing 5 yard passes. I feel the players panic and forget even the basic skills.


True, without Verts/Kaboul/Caulker in the middle we don't have the defenders for it. When two out of those three is in the center i think it'll be a lot better.

 

[Spur of the moment]

It's painful watching us hoof the ball up vaguely towards Defoe (of all people), we are simply inviting teams to have another go every time. An intelligent team passes the ball swiftly and neatly out of defence in short triangles as it moves swiftly forward (Barca of course being the supreme example).

AVB is reckoned to be an intelligent coach so why isn't he drumming this approach into the team?

 

[NWND]

It's painful watching us hoof the ball up vaguely towards Defoe (of all people), we are simply inviting teams to have another go every time. An intelligent team passes the ball swiftly and neatly out of defence in short triangles as it moves swiftly forward (Barca of course being the supreme example).

AVB is reckoned to be an intelligent coach so why isn't he drumming this approach into the team?

Old habits die hard, and under pressure (as Liverpool put us under considerably) its easy to revert to what you know and unfortunately what a lot of British players are taught at an early age and that is "get rid".

It will take time, we're a work in progress, but i DO see progress from game to game. We could really do with a player like Moutinho that like the poster above says is a calming influence in possession. The thing is that we had all the cutting edge but Liverpool had all the calm. They had people like Allen and Gerrard that are great at passing the ball and keeping play ticking over. What they didn't have and don't have is the explosive incisiveness that we have with Bale, Defoe, Dembele and to a lesser extent Lennon. AVB wanted Moutinho, but i'm sure if we couldn't get him he'd have liked to have gotten in a plan B in a similar mould, someone like Allen, or Hernanes the Lazio player who impressed me when we played them. I think it has to be the priority for us in the next couple of transfer windows along with a centre-forward.

 

[Spursalot]

It's painful watching us hoof the ball up vaguely towards Defoe (of all people), we are simply inviting teams to have another go every time. An intelligent team passes the ball swiftly and neatly out of defence in short triangles as it moves swiftly forward (Barca of course being the supreme example).

AVB is reckoned to be an intelligent coach so why isn't he drumming this approach into the team?

Because the two CB's we played against Liverpool weren't good enough to do it?


Surely one of the first things is to know your limitations. You don't use players for a role they are not suited for, because they're not going to able to perform it very well..