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So just what IS it with us and United?

Spur of the moment

Frederic Kanoute
Doesn't matter where, when or how well we play them, we just KNOW we're somehow never going to beat them. Pretty much every other team can manage the odd victory against them once in a blue, but us? Oh no. Somehow it seems it is just not permitted.

So why? Why, why, why?

Okay let's get the obvious answer out the way first. No getting away from it, they are STILL that much better than us. You only have to look at the League table. Better organised, especially at the back. Better quality players, especially in attack. Does anyone really believe that if a chance like Rooney's header had fallen to Adebayor he too would have taken it with equal panache? I doubt it.

But the fact they are still better than us doesn't necessarily mean we are always bound to fail, so what else can it be? And please don't give me luck and biased referees. Even though it's over a decade since all the breaks seem to go our way (our 4-1 win when the unfit Schmeichel had a 'mare) it cannot possibly all be down to that.

For me the biggest difference has to be Sir Alex Ferguson. Not just because he is the shrewdest judge of talent, nor that he is the best man-manager and motivator out there. Neither that he knows exactly how to set his teams up to play against us. Not even that he is such a massively intimidating figure with referees that they so often end up giving the big decisions United's way.

No, for me it is one thing and one thing only above all else. Psychology. His extraordinary ability to psyche out the opposition, not just days but weeks ahead of the match. Who here doubts that he is the absolute master of this aspect and that it does not play a very significant part?

We know how he employs all kinds of mischievous tricks against some other clubs to undermine them With some, such as Livrpool, it may be provocation With others intimidation, scorn, insults, whatever. But oh no not with us. With us he has long since realised that one very simple tack always works without fail.

Flattery.

Flattery pure and simple. Nothing else. He makes it known long before our games that he thinks we are on the up, that we're a great footballing side, that we are especially difficult to beat because we play such attractive football, that games against us are historically always entertaining etc etc etc.

But of course it's all utter flimflam, designed to make us believe we can match them for football and that therefore we will play an open game, meaning in turn we'll end up leaving wide open spaces at the back for his skllful forwards to exploit.

If you don't believe me, answer me this. When did we last park the bus against United? Never. Never, never never. Yes I know it's mainly because that's just not our game and that we don't do it against other sides either. Even so I'm convinced Ferguson's encouraging words help ever so subtly to soften us up. You can just imagine how it gets into the heads of the players beforehand. Yeah, we ARE pretty damn good, we CAN match them for football, even outplay them. Let's show them!

Ha-ha-ha-ha-HA! What suckers.

Surely if we are ever going to beat United, given their outstanding ability going forward, the first thing we need to concentrate on is keeping it tight at the back? I'm damn certain a manager like Mourinho or Martin O'Neil would do precisely that. But in all the years I've been supporting Spurs (nearly 60!) I cannot remember the last time we ever did it. Maybe back in the late Sixties or early Seventies when that was how most teams played anyway, I don't know.

But I'm equally sure that if we did so we'd have a much better chance of grabbing all the points. Doesn't mean we'd have to abandon our tradition of playing exciting attacking football and end up playing negatively. Just that if you keep everybody behind the ball you have a better chance of catching THEM on the break whilst at the same time keeping a clean sheet our end. That's all I'm saying.

I'm convinced this is THE biggest reason we never manage to win against United. No doubt I'll be shot down in flames by some of you, but if so, please give me a better reason.

I'm all ears.
 
I still think the 5-3 after being 3-0 up damaged us mentally. No matter how we play we always expect to lose and just accept it
 
I think it was the losing to them deliberately in '99 (after being a goal up) to ensure ArseAnal didn't win the title... don;t tell me it didn't go through EVERY Spurs' fan's mind to (silently) celebrate the fact we'd lost...

we sold our souls that day, and have been paying for it almost ever since!

Mendes goal at OT sealed it for me that there are much darker forces at work in this fixture than we can EVER know... we are simply not meant to beat them ever again! (the blip in 2001 will NEVER be repeated!)
 
I think it was the losing to them deliberately in '99 (after being a goal up) to ensure ArseAnal didn't win the title... don;t tell me it didn't go through EVERY Spurs' fan's mind to (silently) celebrate the fact we'd lost...

we sold our souls that day, and have been paying for it almost ever since!

Mendes goal at OT sealed it for me that there are much darker forces at work in this fixture than we can EVER know... we are simply not meant to beat them ever again! (the blip in 2001 will NEVER be repeated!)

I love you man

:ross:
 
Seriously forget United and this notion of a hoodoo. It's basics. We played well but we slept on 3 key occasions and we lost. No one to blame but ourselves.

In the top of the table clashes, they have notoriously been close encounters often settled by a moment of brilliance or a mistake (not 3!). We should be defending as they did for the entire 90 (+stoppage time). This is the key. You do not lose concentration at vital times like this.

My argument is always we should never concede from corners or freekicks. It gives us a chance to regroup, and get tight to the opposition. It's discipline. United are so regimented in that respect. Fergie doesn't tolerate it. Neither should we if it continually costs us. Right now we are perhaps experiencing a blip. Set it right in the next few games and no more switching off.

this sort of thing requires a paradigm shift for us, the mentality needs to change within the club. It should not be acceptable.

I like Ledley's comments today:

LOSS 'HARD TO TAKE' - LEDLEY
Posted 05 March 2012 10:59am
Ledley King talked about the fine line between winning and losing after Sunday’s 3-1 loss at home to Manchester United.

Having dominated the first half we suffered the huge blow of conceding a goal seconds before half-time as Wayne Rooney headed home Ashley Young’s corner.
We were on top again for the first 15 minutes of the second half but then United struck again with a goal out of nothing for a 2-0 lead on the hour.

Young curled home the third to completely deflate the Lane on 69 minutes and it was left to Jermain Defoe to strike a late consolation.

“It’s tough to take because I thought for the majority of the game we gave a good account of ourselves,” reflected Ledley.

“But if you fall asleep at vital times you will get punished.

“We conceded the first goal at a bad time. That was disappointing, a free header in the six-yard box shouldn’t be happening.

“We tried to regroup, tried to come out and perform again, tried to lift ourselves and we did that, but went to sleep on a throw-in.

“You won’t beat teams like United unless you are fully concentrated for the full 90 minutes, and that was a bit of a lesson.

“You can’t fault our work-rate but it’s those moments that make all the difference.”
 
I still firmly believe juande Ramos had the big four's number. Arry we all know worships the ground SAF walks on, SAF treats all managers like his bitches unless they showed no respect and turn them over. We managed to get over wenger, but we have got to man up, as I have kept on spouting on GG again and again.

It is simply mental, as Wiggly's missus said, we haven't got over 'accepting' losing. If we want to be a top four team, year in year out, we have to learn to win ugly. Or just get better strikers !
 
Didn't we only beat the big 4 in cups under Ramos? Harry has beaten Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool regularly
 
We need an arrogant manager who doesn't care who Utd are or about the past, someone who demands we go out & beat them....................................Mourinho, he is a man who knows how to do it.
 
It the FERGIE CURSE...he is a curse since we lost him to manU in '86...I know we beat them many times while he was there but the curse just started to pick up this past decade :p

:rolleyes:
 
I swear I'd seen yesterday game about 20 odd times already. We dominate possession without really creating anything. They knick a goal, we go chasing the game and get picked off by 3 or 4

Throw in a few dubious refereeing decisions and here we are again. It's like its fudging scripted.
 
Its because we were destined to drop towards the pack and cty and utd are destined to fight it out.

So said the agreement at the Premier League general meeting of Chairman Jan 11th minutes.



I know some of you believe this.
 
i dont understand why everyone sweeps the referee theory under the carpet? its happened too many times with us vs utd for it to be coincidence and if it wasnt for referee's we may not even be having this conversation.

The fact that nani handballed it a couple of years ago and then tapped it in and got the goal and then adebayor accidentally stops saha's shot from going it with his stomach then his hand at fast pace and taps it in and it gets disallowed is a joke.
 
pm0310_140557a.jpg


CASE CLOSED!

Laugh at me if you want, but we all know there is something systematically wrong with the English game that this was allowed to happen...

this isn't just a 'mistake' ...there is nothing 'close-call' about this... if the ref + 2 linesmen DIDN'T see this, then they need a Blue Badge and special disabled privileges... and if they did, then the whole fudging game is bent beyond repair and we can try all we want to win the league... it will NEVER HAPPEN until we're willing to pay the people that matter, brick in the Lasagne that need bricking in, and buying the games that need swaying... simple!

If Levy is prepared to sell his soul like David Dein, Roman Abramovitch and Sheik-Rattle-and-Roll Mohamed before him then fine... this time next year, we'll be Champions... I can't fudging WAIT!!!
 
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Mate, I wasn't laughing at you.

Genuinely enjoy your posts and ever-growing conspiracy fear of a global masterplan to eradicate Spurs from the worlds map and build a housing estate on top of WHL
 
Money. Its nearly always the same, whoever has the most, wins the most. Marrcotti done an article about it last year, when Italians spent most they won the Champions League, then it was the English teams, now the Spanish. Same applies to the Prem.
 
What annoys me is even teams like Burnley, West Ham, Middlesbrough and Wolves have managed to beat United, but we haven't!

A number of factors are involved:

1. The recent history against them. Don't tell me the players don't think about it or not all of the players have been at the club during the 11 year curse so it doesn't matter. Look at how mad our players went when we beat Arsenal in 2010, they know what it means to the club and the fans when we beat them.

2. Poor defending. Too many examples to name but the first goal yesterday was a prime example.

3. Poor refeering/cheating. Come on, we all know United get most of the decisions in games, especially at Old Trafford. The big teams/players in every sport get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to officiating. Can anyone name 1 time where truly dodgy decision has gone in our favour against them? You simply cannot dismiss the number of bad decisions we always get against them, it's beyond a joke now!

4. Mentality. United never know when they are beaten. They've come from behind so many times over the years against every team that it must be routine for them. No deficit is too big to come back from. Also they rarely lose when taking the lead. I might be wrong, but I don't think they have ever lost a premier league game after being 2-0 up.

5. They are our bogey team. Every club has one. We used to be City and Everton's bogey team.

Watching the game yesterday was like every other Spurs-United game over the past 11 years as we switched off from set pieces like we always do against them.

Just out of interest, is this our longest stretch without beating a team in the same league as us?
 
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