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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

MartyFunkhouser said:
But it does and it is still one of the most balanced views on here.

You don't have people on here purposely goading you about being Catholic in the same way or making reference to your ethnicity in the same way @LutonSpurs has had to endure on here, so although you think you have a point its not really relevant to the context of this particular conversation.

He posts for balance to the accusations made on here, not to claim that it doesn't happen within the Muslim community. There is a difference
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Let’s be honest here. If anyone made any references to say, Catholic priests molesting children scandal, people would call it for what it is. Priest, Catholics, molesting, children, disgusting.

But when it comes to Asian Pakistani grooming rape gangs. Then it’s not because they are Pakistani in ethnicity, or Muslim, even though lots of victims cite their rapists were referencing Islam during their ordeal.

Then come the semantics and mental gymnastics, because it’s better to admit that there is a problem and root cause, and that would eliminate or reduce future failings by the police, the Pakistani community, Islamism.

But yes Luton shouldn’t have to answer as he’s not responsible, but in the same way he shouldn’t not acknowledge the reality when he brings himself into the debate either.
 
Gazza said:
Let’s be honest here. If anyone made any references to say, Catholic priests molesting children scandal, people would call it for what it is. Priest, Catholics, molesting, children, disgusting.
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And thats what people call Pakistani rape gangs, but its not reflective of all the religion, no one is saying "you are more likely to be.........XYZ if you are Catholic, footballer, member of the Royal family or in government, despite there being Major history in all those institutions and more, there is a massive difference in how its reported, dealt with, processed mentality, especially on here.

I think there are MAJOR issues in this country in many institutions with CSE and Rape but I don't think everyone in those institutions in complicit and the same where as the constant accusation made towards people like Luton is that they are, or you are more likely to be etc.
So if we are going to compare the two we need to be more genuine about the intentions and how its talked about on here

The COE on here last year refused to run an internal enquiry on the church despite there being a cover up reported and there was crickets. Its really not being spoken about in a balanced way on here
 
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Gazza said:
Let’s be honest here. If anyone made any references to say, Catholic priests molesting children scandal, people would call it for what it is. Priest, Catholics, molesting, children, disgusting.

But when it comes to Asian Pakistani grooming rape gangs. Then it’s not because they are Pakistani in ethnicity, or Muslim, even though lots of victims cite their rapists were referencing Islam during their ordeal.

Then come the semantics and mental gymnastics, because it’s better to admit that there is a problem and root cause, and that would eliminate or reduce future failings by the police, the Pakistani community, Islamism.

But yes Luton shouldn’t have to answer as he’s not responsible, but in the same way he shouldn’t not acknowledge the reality when he brings himself into the debate either.
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Why do I have to acknowledge when you don't demand the same from the NON Pakistanis here?
 
LutonSpurs said:
Why do I have to acknowledge when you don't demand the same from the NON Pakistanis here?
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No you are not going to get this are you?

Like I said you shouldn’t have to answer in the slightest you are not the reason or guilty for this hideous people and rightly you would distance yourself from them.

However, when you say that it’s racist and an attack on brown people when someone calls it out for what it is, then expect some questions.

It’s not racist, its facts that the majority of the rapists we’re grooming white girls from vulnerable backgrounds, targeting them and getting away with it by the cowardice from the police who are equally complicit in this btw. Then when you hear the stories of the victims you can safely say that the rapists weaponised Islam in their justification, referencing Quranic verses.
 
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MartyFunkhouser said:
And thats what people call Pakistani rape gangs, but its not reflective of all the religion, no one is saying "you are more likely to be.........XYZ if you are Catholic, footballer, member of the Royal family or in government, despite there being Major history in all those institutions and more, there is a massive difference in how its reported, dealt with, processed mentality, especially on here.

I think there are MAJOR issues in this country in many institutions with CSE and Rape but I don't think everyone in those institutions in complicit and the same where as the constant accusation made towards people like Luton is that they are, or you are more likely to be etc.
So if we are going to compare the two we need to be more genuine about the intentions and how its talked about on here

The COE on here last year refused to run an internal enquiry on the church despite there being a cover up reported and there was crickets. Its really not being spoken about in a balanced way on here
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There should be more of an enquiry and yes it’s been all a bit quiet on that front, couldn’t agree more.

However just because that’s the case, it doesn’t mean that we should not call a spade a spade when any form of predatory behaviour rears its head.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
No one disputes that, the dispute is it should be called everywhere where it rears its head
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The Catholic and CoE cover up is just as appalling. Different circumstances and motives but with the same result. A massive coverup with victims expected to be hushed into silence, whilst the perpetrators carry on like nothing happened.
 
Gazza said:
The Catholic and CoE cover up is just as appalling. Different circumstances and motives but with the same result. A massive coverup with victims expected to be hushed into silence, whilst the perpetrators carry on like nothing happened.
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Its the same everywhere, where there are men and there is power or perceived power then vulnerable people will be targeted. The Spotlight report in Boston highlighted how kids in the region were targeted and it was no different to anywhere else, including Rotherham etc.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Its the same everywhere, where there are men and there is power or perceived power then vulnerable people will be targeted. The Spotlight report in Boston highlighted how kids in the region were targeted and it was no different to anywhere else, including Rotherham etc.
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And rightly so, it should be investigated, reported and justice should be served. However the nuance is that the churches didn’t use their religious beliefs, but used, like you said their position of power. And with respect to Rotherham and up and down the country, the individuals were from Pakistani ethnicity and used their religion to justify their actions. Either way it’s men, disgusting vile men, that should be facing a judge here and now.

Anyway we shouldn’t be arguing the semantics, what should happen is to investigate and report it how it is, then hopefully the victims can get justice of some sort, and those patterns don’t repeat themselves further down the line.

For example, the church should, moving forward vet anyone in the church with a robust application process. Mosques and Pakistani communities should be more educated to spot the dangers and impact within their community to prevent such future situations arising en mass.
 
Gazza said:
No you are not going to get this are you?

Like I said you shouldn’t have to answer in the slightest you are not the reason or guilty for this hideous people and rightly you would distance yourself from them.

However, when you say that it’s racist and an attack on brown people when someone calls it out for what it is, then expect some questions.

It’s not racist, its facts that the majority of the rapists we’re grooming white girls from vulnerable backgrounds, targeting them and getting away with it by the cowardice from the police who are equally complicit in this btw. Then when you hear the stories of the victims you can safely say that the rapists weaponised Islam in their justification, referencing Quranic verses.
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No. I say it's racist to say raping kids is mostly Pakistani men. Raping kids is mostly white men. Groomings gangs in the north was mostly Pakistani men.

The majority of child rapists are white men in this country. But I don't think they are more likely to be nonces. Do you?

You should based on your view on Pakistanis.
 
Gazza said:
There should be more of an enquiry and yes it’s been all a bit quiet on that front, couldn’t agree more.

However just because that’s the case, it doesn’t mean that we should not call a spade a spade when any form of predatory behaviour rears its head.
Click to expand...

To me, the biggest difference is the implied guilt by association. I’m Catholic (not that I care/believe, but that’s how I was raised) but no one gives me any grief because my church has a major sexual abuse & cover up issue. But when it’s a Muslim who committed a crime, all Muslims are considered culpable (hence the “why don’t you apologise for your kind” nonsense) and it extends into attacks on all immigrants / all non-white people.
 
revlis said:
To me, the biggest difference is the implied guilt by association. I’m Catholic (not that I care/believe, but that’s how I was raised) but no one gives me any grief because my church has a major sexual abuse & cover up issue. But when it’s a Muslim who committed a crime, all Muslims are considered culpable (hence the “why don’t you apologise for your kind” nonsense) and it extends into attacks on all immigrants / all non-white people.
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This
 
Gazza said:
Let’s be honest here. If anyone made any references to say, Catholic priests molesting children scandal, people would call it for what it is. Priest, Catholics, molesting, children, disgusting.

But when it comes to Asian Pakistani grooming rape gangs. Then it’s not because they are Pakistani in ethnicity, or Muslim, even though lots of victims cite their rapists were referencing Islam during their ordeal.

Then come the semantics and mental gymnastics, because it’s better to admit that there is a problem and root cause, and that would eliminate or reduce future failings by the police, the Pakistani community, Islamism.

But yes Luton shouldn’t have to answer as he’s not responsible, but in the same way he shouldn’t not acknowledge the reality when he brings himself into the debate either.
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As a Catholic, I have a greater responsibility to call out what happened than a non Catholic. That shouldnt be particularly controversial.
 
revlis said:
To me, the biggest difference is the implied guilt by association. I’m Catholic (not that I care/believe, but that’s how I was raised) but no one gives me any grief because my church has a major sexual abuse & cover up issue. But when it’s a Muslim who committed a crime, all Muslims are considered culpable (hence the “why don’t you apologise for your kind” nonsense) and it extends into attacks on all immigrants / all non-white people.
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Well there is obviously a difference between someone that is non practicing. If you were active and were open about that you would very quickly get questioned about it. As I do very often. The Grooming Gangs is also a more recent crime.
 
robp135 said:
Well there is obviously a difference between someone that is non practicing. If you were active and were open about that you would very quickly get questioned about it. As I do very often. The Grooming Gangs is also a more recent crime.
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3 of my great uncles were Catholic priests. I went to a Catholic high school and was married in a Catholic Church (by one of my uncles)
 
robp135 said:
Well there is obviously a difference between someone that is non practicing. If you were active and were open about that you would very quickly get questioned about it. As I do very often. The Grooming Gangs is also a more recent crime.
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Its not really, there are always reports coming out globally. Most recently about a cover up in Texas which popped up in the press this week here.
 
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