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Roberto Soldado

Re: Official - Soldado

africanspurs said:
everyone has potential , if you saw defoe for the first time you would think he has potential.

one thing i do know is that when he was playing on his own for AvB , i watched him, dubbed the game...and watched him for entire an game (could only stomach the victories) and quite frankly i didnt see enough to think this guy was special. he is an alright striker from what i have seen in this country...and after hearing the fee was 13 million i am more than happy with what he has done.

i think he is learning from ade though, ever since ade been partnered with him up top he seems to be more involved...almost like doing things ade is doing ..just to a lesser degree
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It's just a feel thing AS, can't explain it completely with examples/stats. See my previous post, first time I saw Berbatov play for us I went = real deal. Honestly I've never had that feeling with Defoe, never felt that "next step" was going to happen. I see it in Lamela, don't in Eriksen (despite many here thinking the opposite), I think Soldado can be our best striker in some years for us.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

africanspurs said:
everyone has potential , if you saw defoe for the first time you would think he has potential.

one thing i do know is that when he was playing on his own for AvB , i watched him, dubbed the game...and watched him for entire an game (could only stomach the victories) and quite frankly i didnt see enough to think this guy was special. he is an alright striker from what i have seen in this country...and after hearing the fee was 13 million i am more than happy with what he has done.

i think he is learning from ade though, ever since ade been partnered with him up top he seems to be more involved...almost like doing things ade is doing ..just to a lesser degree
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Where did you hear this?
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Raziel said:
It's just a feel thing AS, can't explain it completely with examples/stats. See my previous post, first time I saw Berbatov play for us I went = real deal. Honestly I've never had that feeling with Defoe, never felt that "next step" was going to happen. I see it in Lamela, don't in Eriksen (despite many here thinking the opposite), I think Soldado can be our best striker in some years for us.
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No way.

I was adamantly against the signing, as i had an idea it would end up like this. He's a poacher and our previous manager decided to not play to his strengths. Since going two up top,he's added more to his game, got more involved in general play but his finishing has been nothing short of atrocious.

I have and will defend him adamantly when he's not being given chances by his teammates BUT this is not the case anymore. He's had 5 v.good chances in the Southampton and Stoke games alone and fluffed all of them. We cannot spend 26 million on a striker and watch him miss chances galore that will eventually come back to haunt us. This isn't a young youth striker that will improve during games...this is a big money signing fluffing chances that Conference strikers would have a field day with.

So to sum it up, i've been pleasantly surprised with his general play (i thought he had absolutely nothing in his locker in that department from watching him in Spain) but his finishing has been ...to put it mildly...very bad.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Kingdawson said:
No way.

I was adamantly against the signing, as i had an idea it would end up like this. He's a poacher and our previous manager decided to not play to his strengths. Since going two up top,he's added more to his game, got more involved in general play but his finishing has been nothing short of atrocious.

I have and will defend him adamantly when he's not being given chances by his teammates BUT this is not the case anymore. He's had 5 v.good chances in the Southampton and Stoke games alone and fluffed all of them. We cannot spend 26 million on a striker and watch him miss chances galore that will eventually come back to haunt us. This isn't a young youth striker that will improve during games...this is a big money signing fluffing chances that Conference strikers would have a field day with.

So to sum it up, i've been pleasantly surprised with his general play (i thought he had absolutely nothing in his locker in that department from watching him in Spain) but his finishing has been ...to put it mildly...very bad.
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But he's shown in the last few years he's capable of finishing chances as simple and more difficult than the ones he's been missing lately. He 100% has the technical capability to finish them.

Once it clicks for him in the PL he'll go on a run. I think he'll be really good for us. His touch, his awareness, his runs, he's got it.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Kingdawson said:
No way.

I was adamantly against the signing, as i had an idea it would end up like this. He's a poacher and our previous manager decided to not play to his strengths. Since going two up top,he's added more to his game, got more involved in general play but his finishing has been nothing short of atrocious.

I have and will defend him adamantly when he's not being given chances by his teammates BUT this is not the case anymore. He's had 5 v.good chances in the Southampton and Stoke games alone and fluffed all of them. We cannot spend 26 million on a striker and watch him miss chances galore that will eventually come back to haunt us. This isn't a young youth striker that will improve during games...this is a big money signing fluffing chances that Conference strikers would have a field day with.

So to sum it up, i've been pleasantly surprised with his general play (i thought he had absolutely nothing in his locker in that department from watching him in Spain) but his finishing has been ...to put it mildly...very bad.
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I agree, I've gone from frustration (poor service) to disappointment (poor finishing). He had some real opportunities and although his overall play has been decent, especially with a few assists, he's simply not doing his job when it comes to finishing chances. There's been some unluckiness, but TBH getting penalties in the first place probably counts towards our "luck quota".
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Raziel said:
Getting into the Spanish side is difficult.

We can agree to disagree, but let's do this

- What's a reasonable amount of goals (total & PL) for you to believe he is a good buy?

So we can look at it at the end of season, I think he will surprise you. Btw, I never though Hutton was decent, but would take Walker over Naughton any day :) always though Berbatov/Bale were the real deal, wasn't sure with Carrick/Modric and my worse "ability guess" was probably Ronaldo, honestly thought the guy Manure bought was a one trick pony (see where that went)
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It's a difficult one, as I view him as a pure goalscorer, whereas you see more to his game, so my threshold's going to be higher.

So for me, as a pure goalscorer, he has to score a minimum of 20 league goals in a season - perhaps 15 or 16 excluding penalties.

What do you think?
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Truth said:
It's a difficult one, as I view him as a pure goalscorer, whereas you see more to his game, so my threshold's going to be higher.

So for me, as a pure goalscorer, he has to score a minimum of 20 league goals in a season - perhaps 15 or 16 excluding penalties.

What do you think?
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Well, part of that equation is what is the benchmark for a Spurs striker, i.e. how many times in the last 10 years has one of our strikers scored 20 league goals? If you look at stats page -> http://www.myfootballfacts.com/TottenhamHotspurPremierLeaguePlayersRecords1992-2009.html even Keane & Berbatov in their big year only did 15.

I think if Soldado gets to 15 this year in PL (which will be at least 20+ total), it puts him equal to Berbs best year and surpassed really only twice that I can tell in last 7-10 years.

So my benchmark will be closer to 15 or 16 PL, 22+ overall and I really don't think we can complain. should he fail to get to 10-12 in the PL, it will be hard to justify the expense.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Now that we're actually getting penalties it's nice to have someone that can put them away. We have thrown away more than a few points over the years.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Jordinho said:
Now that we're actually getting penalties it's nice to have someone that can put them away. We have thrown away more than a few points over the years.
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Its an interesting point, because Soldado's penalties have often been in games with a 1 goal margin, so each was effectively worth 3 points.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

He just needs a bit of confidence. A scruffy 5 yard tap in and he'll be flying.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Can't understand the big argument here, some of this board seem intent to rip our own players to shreds based on 19 games (or less with regards to other players). I agree he has been wasteful these last 2-3 games but then he has still contributed to the side with assists and some great interplay. There were a couple of times yesterday where he linked up so well with Eriksen and Paulinho on the edge of the box. The man has made a living scoring goals, this is a blip of sorts but then all strikers have blank periods.

If we are going to measure the man on the fact he isn't as quick as other strikers and can't leather it in from 30 yards then yes he's a failure. If however we are going to look at what the man has in his locker we can say we have a smart player who has great awareness of his team mates and can play some quick football. For all the talk of players that leather it in 10 times a season, I'd rather have one that will make the right decisions and not just shoot on sight.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Cochise said:
Can't understand the big argument here, some of this board seem intent to rip our own players to shreds based on 19 games (or less with regards to other players). I agree he has been wasteful these last 2-3 games but then he has still contributed to the side with assists and some great interplay. There were a couple of times yesterday where he linked up so well with Eriksen and Paulinho on the edge of the box. The man has made a living scoring goals, this is a blip of sorts but then all strikers have blank periods.

If we are going to measure the man on the fact he isn't as quick as other strikers and can't leather it in from 30 yards then yes he's a failure. If however we are going to look at what the man has in his locker we can say we have a smart player who has great awareness of his team mates and can play some quick football. For all the talk of players that leather it in 10 times a season, I'd rather have one that will make the right decisions and not just shoot on sight.
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I suppose that's the crux of the issue. I don't, and I'm guessing some others, see him as anything other than a goalscorer.

My argument is others have put him on a pedal stool and glamorize every little thing he does.

There are some decent touches, and those two crosses were excellent, but there's not enough there, in my opinion, so I think we can only judge him on his goals.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Cochise said:
Can't understand the big argument here, some of this board seem intent to rip our own players to shreds based on 19 games (or less with regards to other players). I agree he has been wasteful these last 2-3 games but then he has still contributed to the side with assists and some great interplay. There were a couple of times yesterday where he linked up so well with Eriksen and Paulinho on the edge of the box. The man has made a living scoring goals, this is a blip of sorts but then all strikers have blank periods.

If we are going to measure the man on the fact he isn't as quick as other strikers and can't leather it in from 30 yards then yes he's a failure. If however we are going to look at what the man has in his locker we can say we have a smart player who has great awareness of his team mates and can play some quick football. For all the talk of players that leather it in 10 times a season, I'd rather have one that will make the right decisions and not just shoot on sight.
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Welcome to GG my friend, rules are simple

- Our players are either absolute World Class or Pub level players (disregard any prior achievements), no inbetween
- Players get better if they haven't played recently or have been loaned out (see Kaboul/Hudd)
- WC players/managers who achieved great things elsewhere are often "not good enough" for the mighty Spurs (who you may have noticed has been tearing it up in CL for the last decade .. or may be not)
- If we win a game, it's because the opposition is ****, if we lose, it's because we are **** ...

To be clear, I'm not aiming it at Truth specifically, but this board can be a bit much at times.

I don't think Soldado is the next RVP, but I think he's a very good striker and if we set up right, will be more productive than anyone we have had in recent years (bar Bale obviously).
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Plastic season he scored a third of his goals in the first half and the majority in the second half of the season as the team settled

He is a great finisher who in the last few games has just not clicked at putting it away. That nothing to worry about as long as he is there to actually get the chance IMO. So far he has 10 in 20 game is believe which is extremely good even if that includes Europa goals as you still have to bloody score them

Judge him at the end of the season and see.

By the way he wins balls in the air better than anyone I've seen of his height and he shields the ball incredibly well to win us throw ins and corners which is again a great attribute. His all round game is far better than some have given him credit for hence the assist he has got recently and him and Ade look like a partnership which is actually quite rare nowadays so long may that continue
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Still don't think he offers enough in open play to make up for his lack of goals. Especially when he's spurning some of the chances he's had lately.

He has what, one goal for us in the league from open play? None at White Hart Lane... dreadful that, no matter how it's dressed up because the majority of our chances this season have fallen to him.

If he doesn't reach ten league goals from open play then that's a massive failure for a 28 year-old who cost £26m, unless he sets up about 20, that is.

I still hold out hope but as likeable as Bobby is he needs to start being productive, and fast.
 
Re: Official - Soldado

Truth said:
I suppose that's the crux of the issue. I don't, and I'm guessing some others, see him as anything other than a goalscorer.

My argument is others have put him on a pedal stool and glamorize every little thing he does.

There are some decent touches, and those two crosses were excellent, but there's not enough there, in my opinion, so I think we can only judge him on his goals.
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pretty much this for me

edit:- but i do think that his link up play with ade will be good and could get better
 
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