• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Roberto De Zerbi *OFFICIAL*

Raziel said:
Take it easy mate, it's perspetive, and clearly I didn't explain my clearly enough.

When I hear leaders/mentality, I feel we are misdiagnosing, and placing our bets on something that won't solve the problem. Pick the best leader you can think of football wise, put them in this team (replacing a player of equal talent, so you are not rasing the skill level), I don't think said leader changes the results.

The reason our results were brick under Ange and Frank in the PL was tactics, and RDZ seems to be the same, his tempo is off, he plays the wrong person in the 10, doesn't adapt the style to accommodate said 10, tries to play Bentancur/Tonali and Fernandes in midfield, plays Solanke, list goes on.

Basically we come out the blocks at an unsustainable pace, the opposition does a "rope a dope" and rides it out, hits us on a counter and then gets to sit even deeper and play same tactic for another 60 minutes. Not sure how leadership changes that, or even a better striker (sure, we might have won a game because we have slightly better finishing, but the system as it is, seems too slow and open)
Click to expand...

So instead of admitting you completely mis-attributed something, you instead tell me to 'take it easy'?
No.
You're OK.
You were wrong in that attribution. That's all.

...with regards to the rest of what you wrote, fine. All good. Your opinion. I disagree. FWIW you clearly do not understand the point I was making.

As for your paragraph re: 'the reason...' honestly, it's hard to take it at face value given how definitively you've hung your view on one hook (tactics - they all got it/are getting it wrong? Come on!) when it is clear there were/are several other factors at play.

So respectfully, again, I disagree.
 
Last edited:
MartyFunkhouser said:
Its also something that does not need to be said IMO, we all know it as fans but like you say its up to the manager and club to fix. Its also a tactic (speaking out in public) that has not worked for the likes of Conte and Jose, its likely not going to work doing so under RDZ.
Click to expand...

Or anyone else that’s successful at football management. that I remember at least. Jose and Conte do it only when it’s all imploding around them and it signals the end is near.

It’s incredibly counterproductive, especially so early on. He should be trying to build the player confidence talking about’how close we are’ how it’s going to click and when it does it’s going to be beautiful.

But and I said this before we kicked a ball this season so it’s not captain hindsight here. Such huge overhauls in one season rarely (if ever) work.
He would have been much better keeping the core of the squad together and adding two absolute bangers in areas of much need.

The back stabbing Agent VV, dingdonghead Lange and the incompetent Nepos should have known that.

Those areas based on last season, were ST GK and 10.

Now there is an argument to say that we have too many 10s that are unfortunately in various stages of injury and recovery, so I would have some sympathy if we didn’t want to get a 10. And there is and an argument that Kinksy hasn’t been terrible (I don’t think he has been good either to be honest). But I find it hard to believe that if we kept Danso, Palhina, Lankshire and added an elite goalkeeper and top TOP (TM Harry Redknapp) goalscorer and keeper plus Fernandes we wouldn’t be in a better position than we are now.
 
It's too early to draw conclusions but I'm not liking some of the attitude from RDZ, has a go at Tel then drops him from the squad, has a go at Fernandes but Tonali seems immune from his criticism - just says he's not yet up to full fitness. He should be querying (at least in private) why with no world cup, no injuries and 7 games into the season he's still not fit.
 
DTA said:
Or anyone else that’s successful at football management. that I remember at least. Jose and Conte do it only when it’s all imploding around them and it signals the end is near.

It’s incredibly counterproductive, especially so early on. He should be trying to build the player confidence talking about’how close we are’ how it’s going to click and when it does it’s going to be beautiful.

But and I said this before we kicked a ball this season so it’s not captain hindsight here. Such huge overhauls in one season rarely (if ever) work.
He would have been much better keeping the core of the squad together and adding two absolute bangers in areas of much need.

The back stabbing Agent VV, dingdonghead Lange and the incompetent Nepos should have known that.

Those areas based on last season, were ST GK and 10.

Now there is an argument to say that we have too many 10s that are unfortunately in various stages of injury and recovery, so I would have some sympathy if we didn’t want to get a 10. And there is and an argument that Kinksy hasn’t been terrible (I don’t think he has been good either to be honest). But I find it hard to believe that if we kept Danso, Palhina, Lankshire and added an elite goalkeeper and top TOP (TM Harry Redknapp) goalscorer and keeper plus Fernandes we wouldn’t be in a better position than we are now.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of talk about Danso, Palhinha and Lankshear as well as Romero and Spence. Even a bit about Vicario. And you are right, we'd probably be in a better position right now if we'd done what you suggest.

But the changes were made with the long term in mind. Danso was never going to be the sort of centre back De Zerbi wants in his team. I like him as a player, I think he's a terrific defender. He's not great on the ball at this level and never will be. Palhinha is similar. He's very limited on the ball. A terrific warrior, a brilliant tackler and chipped in with some important goals but he's limited. Lankshear is doing great and fair play to him. I'd have kept him but there's a financial reality here - we needed to bring money in and he's never torn up trees with the chances he's gotten. He's also not a better striker than Solanke as poor as Solanke looks at the moment.

We've backed the manager with a 5 year contract. We're coming off two 17th placed finishes and an unbalanced squad with no identity. We've massively overhauled the squad. The start is beyond disappointing but it's 5 games. Even allowing for the fact the start is well below expectations, it was always going to take some time and he needs patience and to be allowed to get on with the job. He's changing personnel and trying to change a deep rooted culture of failure and defeat.

For me, I've no expectations this season aside from not being in a serious relegation battle. As long as we aren't where we are come November, he deserves the time. This is what a successful rebuild can look like - if we believed in this guy enough to give him a 5 year contract and 300m, we need to stick with him unless we are in serious danger of relegation.
 
DeanoAustin said:
There's a lot of talk about Danso, Palhinha and Lankshear as well as Romero and Spence. Even a bit about Vicario. And you are right, we'd probably be in a better position right now if we'd done what you suggest.

But the changes were made with the long term in mind. Danso was never going to be the sort of centre back De Zerbi wants in his team. I like him as a player, I think he's a terrific defender. He's not great on the ball at this level and never will be. Palhinha is similar. He's very limited on the ball. A terrific warrior, a brilliant tackler and chipped in with some important goals but he's limited. Lankshear is doing great and fair play to him. I'd have kept him but there's a financial reality here - we needed to bring money in and he's never torn up trees with the chances he's gotten. He's also not a better striker than Solanke as poor as Solanke looks at the moment.

We've backed the manager with a 5 year contract. We're coming off two 17th placed finishes and an unbalanced squad with no identity. We've massively overhauled the squad. The start is beyond disappointing but it's 5 games. Even allowing for the fact the start is well below expectations, it was always going to take some time and he needs patience and to be allowed to get on with the job. He's changing personnel and trying to change a deep rooted culture of failure and defeat.

For me, I've no expectations this season aside from not being in a serious relegation battle. As long as we aren't where we are come November, he deserves the time. This is what a successful rebuild can look like - if we believed in this guy enough to give him a 5 year contract and 300m, we need to stick with him unless we are in serious danger of relegation.
Click to expand...

My point is those that believed in him enough to give him a 5 year contract and spend £400m as well as selling truely promising players in addition to committed proven warriors are not the brightest and have an atrocious decision making record at our club.
 
DTA said:
My point is those that believed in him enough to give him a 5 year contract and spend £400m as well as selling truely promising players in addition to committed proven warriors are not the brightest and have an atrocious decision making record at our club.
Click to expand...
Fair comment - some of what I saw last season was some of the most incompetent decision making I've ever seen at a professional sports club. But I do have to be fair to them too. If you'd asked me what I'd like to see after last season's brickshow it would have been:

1. Commit to a quality manager
2. Give him more (not absolute) say over transfers
3. Start competing for top players
4. Start paying better wages (which helps with 3)
5. Get better at selling players

They've done all of that. It's not working at the moment and it doesn't help that media tends to catastrophise this sort of situation. However, we are only 5 games in. I really think you just have to accept what's happening at the moment, admit that results are very disappointing but properly start to judge it in 6-8 weeks or so.
 
DeanoAustin said:
There's a lot of talk about Danso, Palhinha and Lankshear as well as Romero and Spence. Even a bit about Vicario. And you are right, we'd probably be in a better position right now if we'd done what you suggest.

But the changes were made with the long term in mind. Danso was never going to be the sort of centre back De Zerbi wants in his team. I like him as a player, I think he's a terrific defender. He's not great on the ball at this level and never will be. Palhinha is similar. He's very limited on the ball. A terrific warrior, a brilliant tackler and chipped in with some important goals but he's limited. Lankshear is doing great and fair play to him. I'd have kept him but there's a financial reality here - we needed to bring money in and he's never torn up trees with the chances he's gotten. He's also not a better striker than Solanke as poor as Solanke looks at the moment.

We've backed the manager with a 5 year contract. We're coming off two 17th placed finishes and an unbalanced squad with no identity. We've massively overhauled the squad. The start is beyond disappointing but it's 5 games. Even allowing for the fact the start is well below expectations, it was always going to take some time and he needs patience and to be allowed to get on with the job. He's changing personnel and trying to change a deep rooted culture of failure and defeat.

For me, I've no expectations this season aside from not being in a serious relegation battle. As long as we aren't where we are come November, he deserves the time. This is what a successful rebuild can look like - if we believed in this guy enough to give him a 5 year contract and 300m, we need to stick with him unless we are in serious danger of relegation.
Click to expand...

Absolutely and you are of course right about alot of this.

Personally I don't agree with all the changes we made this summer, we have to live with it and thats the game I suppose
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Absolutely and you are of course right about alot of this.

Personally I don't agree with all the changes we made this summer, we have to live with it and thats the game I suppose
Click to expand...
That's fair. I wouldn't agree with all the changes. Some of the incomings wouldn't have been my priority but I guess there are two things - RDZ knows what he needs better than any of us and we don't know everything that they were trying for and couldn't get for whatever reason.

On the outgoings - I can see the logic behind them all. Vuskovic might have been the one that rankled the most but I can see the logic.

Either way, it was a better window than I envisaged in my wildest dreams so I'm willing to give it a chance and I genuinely believe it will start to work at some point. It may not be the big "click" where we go from not winning to winning every week but I'd be happy with steady progress at this point.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Maybe, some would be expecting the manager to get time with the players like Madders and Co to get the system imprinted on their brains given the start and lack of time he has had with some.
Click to expand...

There's a three week break between now and the next game. Plenty of time for both a week off AND training to get the system imprinted
 
DeanoAustin said:
That's fair. I wouldn't agree with all the changes. Some of the incomings wouldn't have been my priority but I guess there are two things - RDZ knows what he needs better than any of us and we don't know everything that they were trying for and couldn't get for whatever reason.

On the outgoings - I can see the logic behind them all. Vuskovic might have been the one that rankled the most but I can see the logic.

Either way, it was a better window than I envisaged in my wildest dreams so I'm willing to give it a chance and I genuinely believe it will start to work at some point. It may not be the big "click" where we go from not winning to winning every week but I'd be happy with steady progress at this point.
Click to expand...

The jury is deliberating on the window for me, some of it makes absolute sense, some alot less and I question the level of spend on what I can see on the pitch in terms of quality.

But you are absolutely right, if its to work, its going to take time
 
  • Like
Reactions: DTA
It's not so much his attitude that has me worried than the way he approaches competitive games. We're five games into the season and he still appears to be looking for his best line-up. That's (partly) what pre-season games are for. More importantly, he's got a decision to make regarding Solanke.

From what I've seen so far, I'd cut my losses with him and emulate Spain's system - ie, play with a false 9 and three or four very attacking midfielders. It's not his usual system, but I'd say the actual line-up isn't the biggest part of his tactical identity. You play a guy up top who will make runs away from the goal and open space for your midfielders to run into. It spreads the attacking threat between numerous players, when you don't have a bona fide striker. On the flip side, it implies to drop one of Betancur, Tonali or Fernandes, which is a tough choice.

The second option is to persist with Solanke, at least until the winter transfer window. He's backed himself into a corner there by hyping up Solanke through the summer and it still doesn't solve the Betancur-Tonali-Fernandes issue, but it does allow him to keep using his usual shape.

Then he's got another issue at the back where, in my opinion, VDV and JPVH have similar weakness, which makes for a poor partnership. It might work if we had a midfield trio of Betancur-Tonali-Fernandes, but that creates more issues going forward. It's a shame VDV doesn't see himself as a left-back as I think it would allow him to use his pace while hiding some of faults, but it is what it is.

ManUnited aren't setting the world on fire either, so he's got three weeks to come up with something but, again, one of the problems we're facing right now (in my opinion) is that De Zerbi is yet to commit to something.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Fair comment - some of what I saw last season was some of the most incompetent decision making I've ever seen at a professional sports club. But I do have to be fair to them too. If you'd asked me what I'd like to see after last season's brickshow it would have been:

1. Commit to a quality manager
2. Give him more (not absolute) say over transfers
3. Start competing for top players
4. Start paying better wages (which helps with 3)
5. Get better at selling players

They've done all of that. It's not working at the moment and it doesn't help that media tends to catastrophise this sort of situation. However, we are only 5 games in. I really think you just have to accept what's happening at the moment, admit that results are very disappointing but properly start to judge it in 6-8 weeks or so.
Click to expand...

I’m not trying to be a dingdong here I promise. But in terms of your list:

1. DI Zerbi has not proved he is a top manager, and I’m not just talking about here. Potential yes sure, but proven top manager, No.
2. It looks very much like he was in fact given absolute say over transfers. Which he simply hasn’t earned.
3. Fernandes looks like a top player. You can make an argument for Tonali (although he hasn’t performed yet)
4. Yes that’s true, but I’m not sure that’s a flex.
5. We have sold players yes. But I would argue we have sold the wrong players, at least that’s what it looks like so far at least.

But in fairness it is very early days. And that needs to be taken in to account. And all of what I have written above may prove to make me look like a fool when we end up winning the league next year… so here is to me looking foolish … as long as the league that we win is not the Championship
 
DTA said:
I’m not trying to be a dingdong here I promise. But in terms of your list:

1. DI Zerbi has not proved he is a top manager, and I’m not just talking about here. Potential yes sure, but proven top manager, No.
2. It looks very much like he was in fact given absolute say over transfers. Which he simply hasn’t earned.
3. Fernandes looks like a top player. You can make an argument for Tonali (although he hasn’t performed yet)
4. Yes that’s true, but I’m not sure that’s a flex.
5. We have sold players yes. But I would argue we have sold the wrong players, at least that’s what it looks like so far at least.

But in fairness it is very early days. And that needs to be taken in to account. And all of what I have written above may prove to make me look like a fool when we end up winning the league next year… so here is to me looking foolish … as long as the league that we win is not the Championship
Click to expand...
You’re certainly not being a dingdong. They are fair arguments and it’s a good discussion.

Were we going to get anyone better than RDZ particularly at that time? And, given he saved us from relegation, he’s earned the backing in my book.

I don’t think he’s had absolute say over transfers. Some of the lads we’ve brought in were clearly identified before his time here (Savio and Robertson to name two). Savio and Marmoush are also other players we likely wouldn’t have signed in previous years, we’d have looked further down the league or abroad.

On the players we’ve sold, for the manager we had, all of them make sense. I don’t agree with them but they make sense. There is logic to what we’ve done, whether that logic yields results remains to be seen.

We could all potentially look foolish. We match Juande’s 2 points from 8 games and I might be back here foaming at the mouth demanding change. Here’s to me not looking like a hypocrite…
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back