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Roberto De Zerbi *OFFICIAL*

Bishop said:
If we regularly start games with a combination of Tel, Bergvall, Gray and Gallagher all in the starting 11 you can't actually be expecting us to win many of those games.

Yes absolutely De Zerbi needs to find a way to win games with the players he has available, but I'm just not understanding why people are confused when the same players who previously haven't been up to snuff still aren't up to snuff now.

Managerial competence only goes so far. It was the same with Frank criticisism last season, a manager can influence things 100% but at the end of the day they can only influence based on the quality of the ingredients they have in the first place. We now have some good quality produce, but as I've stated loads of times that new quality is paper thin. A few injuries here or there and we are playing pretty much the same side that almost got us relegated last season
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Intent.
The intent of the style of football a manager wants to play is what keeps (most) people onside and patient or not.
I've seen some absolute RUBBISH about how 'nothing has changed' etc. Yes it has. Even in the last few games. We created FIVE clear chances at Anfield. We were the better side. We can see what he wants us to do. The chance Kudus missed in the first-half came after a move Frank would never have dreamt of. You ignore (consistently IMO) the fact that mnagerial intent is VERY important. Of course the quality of players is imperative, and we might well be heading to a place where the system RDZ wants us to play requires elite all over and we are not there yet. But I like the direction and what he wants to do. Would I do things a little differently? Probably. And I still back what he's doing.

It has, BTW, been ONE transfer window. Remember that.

My worry is that in such a results-driven knee-jerk era, RDZ comes under hard pressure before we have a chance to click.
 
thfcsteff said:
Intent.
The intent of the style of football a manager wants to play is what keeps (most) people onside and patient or not.
I've seen some absolute RUBBISH about how 'nothing has changed' etc. Yes it has. Even in the last few games. We created FIVE clear chances at Anfield. We were the better side. We can see what he wants us to do. The chance Kudus missed in the first-half came after a move Frank would never have dreamt of. You ignore (consistently IMO) the fact that mnagerial intent is VERY important. Of course the quality of players is imperative, and we might well be heading to a place where the system RDZ wants us to play requires elite all over and we are not there yet. But I like the direction and what he wants to do. Would I do things a little differently? Probably. And I still back what he's doing.

It has, BTW, been ONE transfer window. Remember that.

My worry is that in such a results-driven knee-jerk era, RDZ comes under hard pressure before we have a chance to click.
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This.

- The football is watchable again.
- We went to Anfield and outplayed them. The same at Forest.
- Defensively we look solid for the first time since…?
- The data shows we are performing much better than the results.

When it clicks, and I firmly believe it will because it has at every club RDZ has managed, we will be back to playing real Tottenham football again.

Remember it took Poch a full half-season plus before we started seeing the green shoots. I think RDZ is far further along the path already with several of our key creators still recovering from long-term injuries.

Take a breath, enjoy the journey and let’s see where we are by December.
 
thfcsteff said:
Intent.
The intent of the style of football a manager wants to play is what keeps (most) people onside and patient or not.
I've seen some absolute RUBBISH about how 'nothing has changed' etc. Yes it has. Even in the last few games. We created FIVE clear chances at Anfield. We were the better side. We can see what he wants us to do. The chance Kudus missed in the first-half came after a move Frank would never have dreamt of. You ignore (consistently IMO) the fact that mnagerial intent is VERY important. Of course the quality of players is imperative, and we might well be heading to a place where the system RDZ wants us to play requires elite all over and we are not there yet. But I like the direction and what he wants to do. Would I do things a little differently? Probably. And I still back what he's doing.

It has, BTW, been ONE transfer window. Remember that.

My worry is that in such a results-driven knee-jerk era, RDZ comes under hard pressure before we have a chance to click.
Click to expand...

That's almost fair ..

- He's had 7 games last season, and a preseason
- The Brentford game was horrendous
- Probably the only game of season we should have won is Everton on basis of play.
- Pool was unlucky but not helped by his selection (we should have gone stronger to start)

He's under pressure already, not the he's going to get fired in 3 games, but he's got to get some results to go his way, preferably at home as well. If he requires elite everywhere, we might as well change now, 2-3 clubs will always have more elite squads, the only point of such system managers is if the sum can be more than the parts.

I'm completely on board the "I can see improvements" (we can actually fudging pass a ball and control possession for the first time in 3 years), he deserves a season, and we need more than one window (light at RB and CF, probably need a combative player somewhere as well), but it can't be another season of 17th. He's got to get the club up the table, if we fall short of Europe to something like 8th with decent football, ok, not great but ok. Be in 15th in Nov-Jan, and he will be in real trouble.
 
thfcsteff said:
Intent.
The intent of the style of football a manager wants to play is what keeps (most) people onside and patient or not.
I've seen some absolute RUBBISH about how 'nothing has changed' etc. Yes it has. Even in the last few games. We created FIVE clear chances at Anfield. We were the better side. We can see what he wants us to do. The chance Kudus missed in the first-half came after a move Frank would never have dreamt of. You ignore (consistently IMO) the fact that mnagerial intent is VERY important. Of course the quality of players is imperative, and we might well be heading to a place where the system RDZ wants us to play requires elite all over and we are not there yet. But I like the direction and what he wants to do. Would I do things a little differently? Probably. And I still back what he's doing.

It has, BTW, been ONE transfer window. Remember that.

My worry is that in such a results-driven knee-jerk era, RDZ comes under hard pressure before we have a chance to click.
Click to expand...
I think you should direct your post towards Raziel as otherwise you're preaching to the choir. I don't disagree about intent or our improvement. Not sure why you're talking about it being one window so far when I've said exactly the same things, it's going to take time that much is obvious and I've never said otherwise...

However intent can only get you so far if the performances and results don't match with the desires of the overall fan base. That's why you are seeing people turning already and putting the pressure on because intent is not actually enough. People want results, not intent.
 
Raziel said:
That's almost fair ..

- He's had 7 games last season, and a preseason
- The Brentford game was horrendous
- Probably the only game of season we should have won is Everton on basis of play.
- Pool was unlucky but not helped by his selection (we should have gone stronger to start)

He's under pressure already, not the he's going to get fired in 3 games, but he's got to get some results to go his way, preferably at home as well. If he requires elite everywhere, we might as well change now, 2-3 clubs will always have more elite squads, the only point of such system managers is if the sum can be more than the parts.

I'm completely on board the "I can see improvements" (we can actually fudging pass a ball and control possession for the first time in 3 years), he deserves a season, and we need more than one window (light at RB and CF, probably need a combative player somewhere as well), but it can't be another season of 17th. He's got to get the club up the table, if we fall short of Europe to something like 8th with decent football, ok, not great but ok. Be in 15th in Nov-Jan, and he will be in real trouble.
Click to expand...

I don't believe we should have beaten Everton at all - they came with a typical Moyes setup to sit back, so we had the freedom to build our play up higher up the pitch but ultimately they stopped us creating anything/we couldn't create anything meaningful and they had several chances better than ours.
 
billyiddo said:
I don't believe we should have beaten Everton at all - they came with a typical Moyes setup to sit back, so we had the freedom to build our play up higher up the pitch but ultimately they stopped us creating anything/we couldn't create anything meaningful and they had several chances better than ours.
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They didn't stop us. We stop ourselves.
I've said this before, but I'll repeat it again.

The general play is fine, up until we get close to the box. Then all movement stops. No one runs behind to try to drag defenders out of position, there's no opposite movement. So there's basically no penetration, so it becomes almost impossible to create good chances. I also think we lose most 50/50s.
I don't see that hell bent desire to win individual contests. Just look at arsenal. You can see that every player is hell bent on winning every personal duel. They do everything it takes not to lose their duels.

I don't see that with us. Not at all. It's not like they give up, but it's more like "maybe I can win this duel. If I do, that's good, if not, so be it"
It's not "I'm gonna win this, no fudging matter what!"

In fact, I just now came across these stats, that perfectly backs this up!

Take a look at this thread!

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Kandi1977 said:
They didn't stop us. We stop ourselves.
I've said this before, but I'll repeat it again.

The general play is fine, up until we get close to the box. Then all movement stops. No one runs behind to try to drag defenders out of position, there's no opposite movement. So there's basically no penetration, so it becomes almost impossible to create good chances. I also think we lose most 50/50s.
I don't see that hell bent desire to win individual contests. Just look at arsenal. You can see that every player is hell bent on winning every personal duel. They do everything it takes not to lose their duels.

I don't see that with us. Not at all. It's not like they give up, but it's more like "maybe I can win this duel. If I do, that's good, if not, so be it"
It's not "I'm gonna win this, no fudging matter what!"

In fact, I just now came across these stats, that perfectly backs this up!

Take a look at this thread!

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Click to expand...

Looking at this though seems to suggest that "control" is basically possession right? Possession does not always reflect that the team who had most deserved the win or had the better chances. So there is an element of what you say, but also what Everton did to compound that and in fact looking at other stats (I didn't see the game), it looks like they had the better opportunities to win.

Anyway, regardless of styles and ideals, RDZ needs to find a way to eek wins out even without the footballing utopia he craves
 
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Mikey10 said:
Interesting read.

www.theguardian.com

Why Tottenham are misfiring … and it’s not just down to the lack of goals

Spurs are getting into attacking areas but failing to make or take chances as Roberto De Zerbi tries to forge a settled side
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

'Tottenham have too many players with unimpressive shot accuracy.'​

Simons, Kudos and Tel are in our Bottom 5 players for shot accuracy. Hopefully they can/will improve on that.
Meanwhile, Van Hecke and Gallagher are in our Top 5...
 
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