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Riyad Mahrez

braineclipse said:
Why doesn't identifying which players out of a list of players elite teams are all aware of one should sign count as "identifying"?
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Lol I was just saying it doesn't take a rocket scientist to "identify" them players. No skill required.
 
Gazza said:
Lol I was just saying it doesn't take a rocket scientist to "identify" them players. No skill required.
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Drogba, a household name at that time? 25 years old and just had his second full season in Ligue 1.

Essien had played two seasons for Lyon, but far from an established star player.

Flo wasn't even the best striker in the Norwegian league at the time.
 
Jordinho said:
Drogba, a household name at that time? 25 years old and just had his second full season in Ligue 1.

Essien had played two seasons for Lyon, but far from an established star player.

Flo wasn't even the best striker in the Norwegian league at the time.
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Drogba was being tracked by all the big boys in europe including Arsenal (Wenger had been tracking him for three years), hence the fee and wages being offered. He scored goals in the champions league and in the ropey league, playing in the final in his last year in France.

Essien again was a man very much in demand. Voted player of the year in league 1 in France and also nominated in fifas world player of the year. Chelsea offered massive wages and a fee to secure him

They took a punt on Norways best striker who was also being chased by both Merseyside clubs. You say that he wasn't even the best striker in Norway ... He was heavily scouted by many teams from his youth career.
 
Gazza said:
Lol I was just saying it doesn't take a rocket scientist to "identify" them players. No skill required.
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I'm not so sure. I think the point is that there will always be well rated players that turn out to be complete wastes of spaces for whatever reason. Soldado, Torres, Falcao, Shevchenko, Marlet, Reyes, Rebrov, Robinho, and Veron to name but a few. If any of those players turned out to be successes, then a lot of people would be saying that no skill was required, but the point is that it is, even with some "established" stars.

Plenty of clubs were scouting Berbatov, Modric and Bale. But take nothing away from our scouts at the time who identified them and said that they would be successful.
 
Soldado, Torres, Falcao, Shevchenko, Marlet, Reyes, Rebrov, Robinho, and Veron all to a point where in mid to later years and had very established records when they moved to the Prem. They were easy picks, they just didn't work

Modric and Bale not, Berbatov yes to an extent.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Soldado, Torres, Falcao, Shevchenko, Marlet, Reyes, Rebrov, Robinho, and Veron all to a point where in mid to later years and had very established records when they moved to the Prem. They were easy picks, they just didn't work

Modric and Bale not, Berbatov yes to an extent.
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Yep, Lots of players are "known", big difference between being known/successful at smaller club/league vs. being deemed worth the risk.

Modric, Bale, Berbatov, Eriksen are all great examples of known players, available at reasonable price that the top tier clubs didn't bite on ..
 
Grays_1890 said:
Soldado, Torres, Falcao, Shevchenko, Marlet, Reyes, Rebrov, Robinho, and Veron all to a point where in mid to later years and had very established records when they moved to the Prem. They were easy picks, they just didn't work

Modric and Bale not, Berbatov yes to an extent.
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They were "easy picks" but didn't work out. Is that a fault of the scouting or is that a fault of the coaching/managing? My point is simply, when we say "it's not rocket science to identify good players" I would say that it is not simple to pick good players that would work in the premiership. Even the established stars could turn out to be duds, so kudos should be given to the scouts that deem the established stars worthy of a transfer when they do work out, rather than saying anyone could have spotted them. Why, because the aforementioned "easy picks" did not work out. Therefore, I would say that it is not as easy as is being made out.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
They were "easy picks" but didn't work out. Is that a fault of the scouting or is that a fault of the coaching/managing? My point is simply, when we say "it's not rocket science to identify good players" I would say that it is not simple to pick good players that would work in the premiership. Even the established stars could turn out to be duds, so kudos should be given to the scouts that deem the established stars worthy of a transfer when they do work out, rather than saying anyone could have spotted them. Why, because the aforementioned "easy picks" did not work out. Therefore, I would say that it is not as easy as is being made out.
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Good point there are no such thing as "easy picks" really, players may have good records at previous clubs but in reality it does not mean that much. All transfers are a risk and you only have to look at those who came here ( England) and failed to settle/perform.
 
The point I was making was that Drogba Essien Flo were not exactly unknown players. Mahrez is a player that Leicester scouts can be happy about. good work.
 
Gazza said:
The point I was making was that Drogba Essien Flo were not exactly unknown players. Mahrez is a player that Leicester scouts can be happy about. good work.
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That might have been the point you were making. What you actually said was that there was "no skill required" with those known players. It's a somewhat frequently voiced opinion that continues to baffle me.

Mahrez has undoubtedly been a great signing for Leicester and their scouts should be proud. But it was also a signing for a club in a very different situation to where top clubs find themselves. Comparable to Schneiderlin before him going to a small club in a lower league and gradually progressing with that club as the club and player enjoys success provides a great learning curve for the player. A Mahrez or Schneiderlin signing for a top 6 PL club could easily have been sent back abroad after a year or two deemed a flop despite what is in hindsight obvious talent and potential.
 
Just to add my twopennyworth to this debate. I think a clubs supporters are as good a judge of their own players as anyone. Therefore, I would start my long list search by seeing what CFs ( for example ) have been voted their clubs Player or Young Player of the Year. Then narrow it down from there to see if it fits our player requirement profile.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I'm not so sure. I think the point is that there will always be well rated players that turn out to be complete wastes of spaces for whatever reason. Soldado, Torres, Falcao, Shevchenko, Marlet, Reyes, Rebrov, Robinho, and Veron to name but a few. If any of those players turned out to be successes, then a lot of people would be saying that no skill was required, but the point is that it is, even with some "established" stars.

Plenty of clubs were scouting Berbatov, Modric and Bale. But take nothing away from our scouts at the time who identified them and said that they would be successful.
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Exactly.
The skill is more identifying the suitability of a player (rather than just the footballing ability) and dismissing the players that won't make it - that's what makes a really good scout.
 
Pirate55 said:
Just to add my twopennyworth to this debate. I think a clubs supporters are as good a judge of their own players as anyone. Therefore, I would start my long list search by seeing what CFs ( for example ) have been voted their clubs Player or Young Player of the Year. Then narrow it down from there to see if it fits our player requirement profile.
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Interestingly one of the best ways of looking at what fans of various teams think of players is looking at Football Manager attributes as they're collected in part based on fan opinions and in part by scouts. Whilst limiting the overall capability of a team based on their recent results to prevent players and squads being overvalued (as fans will tend to do).
 
Pirate55 said:
Just to add my twopennyworth to this debate. I think a clubs supporters are as good a judge of their own players as anyone. Therefore, I would start my long list search by seeing what CFs ( for example ) have been voted their clubs Player or Young Player of the Year. Then narrow it down from there to see if it fits our player requirement profile.
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Following on from the regression to mean discussion over on SN&V. I think that there is a fair chance of identifying players who are performing at the top of their ability/form and will regress to their career average with this approach.
 
milo said:
Following on from the regression to mean discussion over on SN&V. I think that there is a fair chance of identifying players who are performing at the top of their ability/form and will regress to their career average with this approach.
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Agreed.

Young player of the year type identification is interesting. But honestly I would expect the club to be well aware of any candidates for that from the top two leagues in England (at the very least) and most of the big leagues we track players in around the world well before any such player is announced by the fans.
 
braineclipse said:
Agreed.

Young player of the year type identification is interesting. But honestly I would expect the club to be well aware of any candidates for that from the top two leagues in England (at the very least) and most of the big leagues we track players in around the world well before any such player is announced by the fans.
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The club will be buying in data on teams and players in all of the big leagues (and many smaller ones too).

Our approach is to identify value in the market with players that will increase in value. In most cases this will not be done by signing other clubs' players of the season.
 
milo said:
Following on from the regression to mean discussion over on SN&V. I think that there is a fair chance of identifying players who are performing at the top of their ability/form and will regress to their career average with this approach.
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Or the reverse is true. When Townsend was receiving rave reviews by all and sundry, our fans knew the "real" Townsend.
 
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