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Redknapp

The Moonlit Knight said:
I'll spell it out for you. Winning domestically with Porto, is no more of an achievement than winning domestically with Celtic. Winning the Europa League? Ramos did that too.

I'm not saying AVB won't be a successful Manager. It's the logic people are putting forward stating he is better than Redknapp which is making me laugh.

Also people want Redknapp out because of his media persona and want to replace him with AVB? AVB was dreadful in front of the press and looked like a complete eccentric arse!
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Sorry MK - this was 4 pages back but I dug it out for you. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it works that one manager is ever really definitively better than another. It's about the right man, for the right club in the right situation.

''Fair enough, but this is the point where we will disagree (and I shall agree to do so :-D ) in that I think maybe there is a chance of us competing with the Manchesters and Chelsea if we get someone in with radical new methods of playing that haven't been figured out by our competitors yet.

I think if Harry was Emirates Marketing Project manager, they would have absolutely walked the league, no question. But that's because he is the type of manager to get performances out of the players to the level which you would expect. So you won't underacheive with him trying something different, but if you're looking to progress even further beyond your station, he's probably not the man to do it, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Or to put it this way, if every single thing that had ever been and ever will be discovered about the game of football was known and analysed to perfection by every manager in the league, it would come down to who had the best players, because everything would be levelled out. And therefore you'd want Redknapp managing your side.

But because that isn't the case, because tactical systems have a point where they are new, and haven't been figured out, and are at the early stage of their 'life cycle', you can get players to perform above their station and get results that weren't expected of them. That's what gives Swansea hope. That's what made Lambert so good for Norwich. His way of approaching games was hard to combat because nobody really does it like he does.

If we are to progress now, we need that overperformance. We could try and maintain, but then we risk slipping further away as the clubs with more money get their act together. It could be argued that to keep up, we need someone with a new way of thinking in order to steal a march on everyone else.

Then hopefully, when the tactic has been figured out, we will have improved to an extent that we also have one of the best sqauds, and so our subsequent higher position can be maintained. ''
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
I'll spell it out for you. Winning domestically with Porto, is no more of an achievement than winning domestically with Celtic. Winning the Europa League? Ramos did that too.

I'm not saying AVB won't be a successful Manager. It's the logic people are putting forward stating he is better than Redknapp which is making me laugh.

Also people want Redknapp out because of his media persona and want to replace him with AVB? AVB was dreadful in front of the press and looked like a complete eccentric arse!
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I knew exaclty what you meant by the Lennon comment - threw in some sarcasm because the comparison is largerly inaccurate. The overall club quality is immensely higher than Scotland

Even if so - what exactly does it prove? We shouldn't sign players from lower leagues because their records don't count? :ross: Sorry Dennis, Ruud and Robin, you'd have to leave now. Cristiano too - he also started in Portugal

Well, it's your logic you're putting forward for Arry that many find laughable in turn
 
Kingdawson said:
So much of a "long term strategy" he has that he continuously decided to overlook potentially world class youth like Lukaku in meaningless cup games in order to give more minutes to Torres with the faint hope that he might score a few in these meaningless cup games and that will give him the confidence he needed to score in the league (didn't work). He also didn't give ryan Bertrand much of a look in and instead chose to stick with Cole who was in diabolical form at the time. The guy had no long term strategy at all and it had nothing to do with chelsea not letting him carry it out.
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He brought it some young exciting players, introduced a moderately new formation (for better or worse), and was gearing up (I'd imagine) for a massive overhaul in the summer. Perhaps Lukaku didn't look the part in training - look at Gio and Arry - he'd rather shuffle the whole midfield out of position than play a like for like replacement on the wing
 
Kingdawson said:
So much of a "long term strategy" he has that he continuously decided to overlook potentially world class youth like Lukaku in meaningless cup games in order to give more minutes to Torres with the faint hope that he might score a few in these meaningless cup games and that will give him the confidence he needed to score in the league (didn't work). He also didn't give ryan Bertrand much of a look in and instead chose to stick with Cole who was in diabolical form at the time. The guy had no long term strategy at all and it had nothing to do with chelsea not letting him carry it out.
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Ashley Cole is arguably the best left back on the planet. A ****, sure. But one of the very best in the world in his position. He was one of the chief players to actively go against AVB, so I'm not surprised his form sucked.

I think both parties were to blame. Could AVB have pandered to the egos a bit more and introduced change at a slower pace? Sure, maybe he could have. Although I do remember times when Chelsea set up noticeably deeper like against Emirates Marketing Project and Valencia, so I think he did try to listen to the players. But could the players have given him more respect? Yes, of course.

Ultimately, they just weren't right for each other. Yes, they both could have compromised, but why would you want to compromise when you can just get the right person in and it becomes a more natural fit. If AVB comprimises his style, he's not doing the job Roman brought him in for. If the players decide to compromise, they are playing a style they aren't suited to, so they will try and get him out.

Doesn't mean he won't work at a different club. Infact because he's had some very obvious lessons in terms of what can go wrong, I'd say he's more likely to succeed if given a second chance.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Mate, in this very thread I have defended the last 4 months of Harry's reign to the hilt and tried to bat off loads of criticism taken against him. What I'm saying is what you are saying - that Harry either needs to be backed or sacked. At least that's what I was saying. But after reading that interview, and after hearing him say that speculation does have an effect on players, and then looking back and seeing that he did nothing to stop speculation when it was good for him but effecting our players last season, that he now needs to go. It riled me. He could have done right by Spurs, he could have done something else. But he didn't give a thought to anyone bar himself. I don't blame him, but I don't think he's the right man for us. And therefore I want him to go so we can get in a manager that we do want.

And I would like AVB for the reasons I put a page or two back that I think you missed. About getting someone in that has ideas at the start of their life cycle. That if we make use of it early we can punch above our weight.
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But we already are punching above our weight?

I think part of the reason we disagree is that I don't agree with long termism in football. For me, it rarely exists. At least not with the first XI. For me the key for the first XI isn't building for a future that may never arrive. Pre-Champion's League, that was a viable strategy. Those days are long gone. The key now is to keep up momentum as much as you can and that can only be achieved by focusing all your efforts on the here and the now. That buys you time for the future and increases your chance of success.

Spurs right now have a very good young team. It is young too, and people often forget that. With our wage structure and the fact we can't go out and spunk ?ú35m our first team is almost as good as I think it can realistically get. There's a couple of areas I personally feel we can improve on, but not many. The hard part for us is getting the right squad in place, because good players will sit on the benches of teams challenging for the title (also due to the fact those same teams can play their squad players more in wages than we can our first teamers) but they won't sit on the bench for a side that isn't. Also we can't afford to have high paid squad players on the bench. So we'll never achieve that dream of having quality off the bench players like City or Chelsea have. Not unless we get a sugar daddy anyway.

So the last thing I want to see at the club is a radical manager. Most of them fail and we can't afford that, and even if we did get a successful one at Spurs? The best he'd likely achieve is 3rd or 4th and then he'd be poached by a bigger club anyway. What we need is another Redknapp stlye manager. A manager who the bigger clubs probably wouldn't be interested in poaching, but someone who can maintain the status quo and keep us top six.
 
raboner said:
mate i wasn't abusing you or your children, i was merely pointing out that i felt you were behaving in a childish manner (something you are quick to accuse me of regularly) ..

i'm afraid your over the top response only reinforces my argument that when it comes to this redknapp 'debate,' you act in a way that would make even the silliest of children label you childish..

apologies if you took it as an attack on you or your family, but your response was way out of line, imo.
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Empty words
 
ArcspacE said:
He brought it some young exciting players, introduced a moderately new formation (for better or worse), and was gearing up (I'd imagine) for a massive overhaul in the summer. Perhaps Lukaku didn't look the part in training - look at Gio and Arry - he'd rather shuffle the whole midfield out of position than play a like for like replacement on the wing
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Gio imo can never in his life play on the right of a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1 imo but that's another issue.

Tbh i don't think Boas had anything to do with any of their youth signings. Well actually i don't think he had much to do with any of their signings but that's besides the point. He showed nothing to suggest he had a long term strategy except maybe when he dropped Lampard (and even that's pushing it).
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
But we already are punching above our weight?

I think part of the reason we disagree is that I don't agree with long termism in football. For me, it rarely exists. At least not with the first XI. For me the key for the first XI isn't building for a future that may never arrive. Pre-Champion's League, that was a viable strategy. Those days are long gone. The key now is to keep up momentum as much as you can and that can only be achieved by focusing all your efforts on the here and the now. That buys you time for the future and increases your chance of success.

Spurs right now have a very good young team. It is young too, and people often forget that. With our wage structure and the fact we can't go out and spunk ?ú35m our first team is almost as good as I think it can realistically get. There's a couple of areas I personally feel we can improve on, but not many. The hard part for us is getting the right squad in place, because good players will sit on the benches of teams challenging for the title (also due to the fact those same teams can play their squad players more in wages than we can our first teamers) but they won't sit on the bench for a side that isn't. Also we can't afford to have high paid squad players on the bench. So we'll never achieve that dream of having quality off the bench players like City or Chelsea have. Not unless we get a sugar daddy anyway.

So the last thing I want to see at the club is a radical manager. Most of them fail and we can't afford that, and even if we did get a successful one at Spurs? The best he'd likely achieve is 3rd or 4th and then he'd be poached by a bigger club anyway. What we need is another Redknapp stlye manager. A manager who the bigger clubs probably wouldn't be interested in poaching, but someone who can maintain the status quo and keep us top six.
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I used to think, back in my defend Harry at all costs days, that we were punching above our weight too. But since Harry's ommision that we will underperform with speculation, it's lead me to believe that we underperformed. I'm not saying we should finish above Chelsea every year, or even Liverpool neccesarily if they got their act together, but this season, when Chelsea were terrible in the league, when Liverpool were all the way down where they were, and when Arsenal had to go a month without any full backs, with Wheelchair out for the season, and having lost their 2 key players and replaced them with mid-table averageness, we should have come 3rd. I argued against that before, but now I agree with the people that said we should have. And that's because I'd say for the fact that we underperformed due to speculation.

Anyway, I don't think a radical manager needs to mean long term. Klopp, another good example of someone failing with one club and succeeding on a massive scale with another, took a couple of seasons to get them where they are now. But even those couple to get there weren't half bad.

But you don't agree that a radical, new system can lead to overperformance (and I'd say right now, finishing anywhere from 4th to 6th would be our proper level, and above that consistently would be overperformance) even though the likes of Swansea and Norwich have shown it can be done, so we just won't agree. Even Martinez was a bit radical, employing something different to get an edge. Most teams use money as their edge. Since we can't do that, we need a different strength. Our edge could be that we are the most radical team at the top.

And I also answered the point about AVB leaving a couple of pages back too. If he makes us more successful than we are now, there won't be many steps up. If he fails, we won't mind losing him. And if we maintain, then it's been a positive relationship for all concerned and he can move on his way while we find someone else.
 
Kingdawson said:
Gio imo can never in his life play on the right of a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1 imo but that's another issue.

Tbh i don't think Boas had anything to do with any of their youth signings. Well actually i don't think he had much to do with any of their signings but that's besides the point. He showed nothing to suggest he had a long term strategy except maybe when he dropped Lampard (and even that's pushing it).
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So you have some people saying AVB wouldn't be good because he tries to change too much too quickly (not in this thread, but others) and other people are now saying he didn't actually do that much.

So there's two completely polar opposite views there and both can't be right. I think he clearly had a plan, and didn't have long enough to truly implement it. But he's a clever guy, he wouldn't have been aimlessly plodding along.
 
mick cooper said:
I have never threatened anyone on the internet

you may have chosen to interpret something I said that way - like you chose to totally misinterpret Raboners statement to you

you then threatened him with violence, just how were you going to carry that out?

unless you have links to MI5 or the CIA - I would say you can't

- like they say, anyone can be hard as, sat behind a keyboard
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You said you'd ruin me?

And I said if I ever met him i'd be swinging. If someone said they felt sorry for your daughter eing raised by you and said you were a brick parent......a stranger, what would you do?

And it's MI6 actually.
 
Leeds Spur said:
You said you'd ruin me?

And I said if I ever met him i'd be swinging. If someone said they felt sorry for your daughter eing raised by you and said you were a brick parent......a stranger, what would you do?

And it's MI6 actually.
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Not give a fudge?

I'm not a parent, but I find it odd how people take so much offence at what people on forums say to each other. No-one actually knows each other.
 
Leeds Spur said:
You said you'd ruin me?

And I said if I ever met him i'd be swinging. If someone said they felt sorry for your daughter eing raised by you and said you were a brick parent......a stranger, what would you do?

And it's MI6 actually.
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you're thinking of someone else, I have never, and would never make a comment like that on the internet.

no you wouldn't, you have no idea whether he's a 200lb professional cage fighter, or someone in a wheelchair. If someone said that to me, I'd start thinking about what it was that I had done, to make them think like that. At the moment, your posts just make you look like a mildly more articulate wriggly. I know that you can do better than that, so its a shame to see someone with intelligence, try to act like a mouth breather.

His comment was about you - not your daughter. To be perfectly honest, your input into the whole debate is hardly something that suggests you are a beacon of guidance and hope, for anyone.

MI5 is domestic intelligence services, so unless Raboner is overseas, you'd be wrong. I assumed he's in the UK
 
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