Psychology, the club and the fans...

[diego_maradona]

Those fans have been spoilt over the deacdes and more often than not - witnessed their team producing the goods.

We on the other hand are far more insecure about any 'potential' success on the horizon and appear to panic/become nervous as soon as something threatens that - i.e. 'don't fudging take away the little bit of happiness', etc. In addition - history of late is always against us so it quickly becomes a case of 'not again, ffs' and it simply enters a downwards spiral from there on.

It's doesn't stop those sides fans from still groaning at every misplaced pass. I don't think they are any more supportive or critical than us.

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

We will beat Blackburn at home, we have had our shock loss at home to Norwich.

Then we willl beat Villa away, get our first win at bolton.

and then, my friends. We will beat Fulham at get 4th.

 

[ArcspacE]

It's doesn't stop those sides fans from still groaning at every misplaced pass. I don't think they are any more supportive or critical than us.

You just said in your previous post you think all fans are the same.

In my opinion - the only difference is what they've won hence their subsequent reaction to 'slumps' in form

 

[diego_maradona]

You just said in your previous post you think all fans are the same.

I did. And I haven't altered my view

 

[ArcspacE]

So what is your actual question?

According to your logic - if all fans are the same then their 'input' has fudge all to do with the outcome since Utd and Arse have been winning titles for decades with the very same fickle qunts in the stands.

Perhaps it then comes down to player mentality only which is in turn nurished from management level. Weak management - weak mentality - history against us.

 

[diego_maradona]

So what is your actual question?

According to your logic - if all fans are the same then their 'input' has fudge all to do with the outcome since Utd and Arse have been winning titles for decades with the very same fickle qunts in the stands.

Perhaps it then comes down to player mentality only which is in turn nurished from management level. Weak management - weak mentality - history against us.

It was more a post to just get out what was in my head. A discussion.
Im fascinated by psychology in business and in sports. What makes successful companies, teams.

(what's with the anger? Arc being on gg has made you aggressive)

 

[Jurgen the German]

We're seventh highest in the league when it comes to wages, I think. And we're historically the fifth most successful English club. We've never won the European Cup, and have only won the league twice in our history. We are the definition of upper mid-table safety. And that probably transmits directly to the players, consciously or subconsciously. After all, why try harder when the last great era to live up to was fifty one years ago?

The only way that'll change is if we;

a)have a period of sustained success, which seems unlikely at the present time,

b)hire a Ferguson, Wenger, or Nicholson; an inspirational, one-club manager who will rebrand the entire club and bring us an era of unprecedented success, which, again, seems unlikely given present candidates,

c)get bought by a billionaire who bankrolls us to a title or two, which will stay in the books long after the knowledge that we cheated to get them will, or

d)find a magnificently talented/inspirational leader-like player or two in our youth academy who professes a fierce loyalty to the club and is willing to stick around at the club for however long it takes for it to finally flourish, which seems...optimistic, at best.

Until one or more of the above four happen, that malaise is not going away. For better or for worse, all the clubs we're aiming to measure up against have had either enormous luck, inspirational management, boatloads of money or a fiercely loyal and talented group of players to call upon. We haven't had any of these, and that's why we appear to be the poor relations to the rest of these competitors.

Still, one day our luck will change, and we will get our own luck. One day.

One day.

Great post

 

[tynesidespur]

Those fans have been spoilt over the deacdes and more often than not - witnessed their team producing the goods.

We on the other hand are far more insecure about any 'potential' success on the horizon and appear to panic/become nervous as soon as something threatens that - i.e. 'don't fudging take away the little bit of happiness', etc. In addition - history of late is always against us so it quickly becomes a case of 'not again, ffs' and it simply enters a downwards spiral from there on.

Think you've hit the tickle my balls with a feather there.

 

[tynesidespur]

I did. And I haven't altered my view

You have definitely mentioned previously that you thought that our fans appear to get more anxious when its 0-0 after an hour. I think it was during the season we got 4th but drew at home to Hull and lost 1-0 to Stoke and Wolves. I'm sure you had a different opinion then!

I've been lurking and sometimes posting on this board for a long time

 

[diego_maradona]

You have definitely mentioned previously that you thought that our fans appear to get more anxious when its 0-0 after an hour. I think it was during the season we got 4th but drew at home to Hull and lost 1-0 to Stoke and Wolves. I'm sure you had a different opinion then!

I've been lurking and sometimes posting on this board for a long time

Lol I meant between the 2 posts that Arc pointed out. Yea I always change my mind. I guess I'm starting to notice it everywhere now. All grounds tend to turn on their own players, teams very quickly, and there aren't any real examples of teams who really get behind the side when they need it most.

I think that post you were talking about was when we used to go a goal down and never come back from! Yes the crowd did get anxious then. But we seemed to turn the corner then.

I think expectancy isn't set by the fans really but more the things that DubaiSpur mentioned earlier:

a)period of sustained success
b)hire a Ferguson, Wenger, or Nicholson; an inspirational, one-club manager
c)get bought by a billionaire who bankrolls us to a title or two
d)find a magnificently talented/inspirational leader-like player or two in our youth academy who professes a fierce loyalty to the club

 

[diego_maradona]

We're seventh highest in the league when it comes to wages, I think. And we're historically the fifth most successful English club. We've never won the European Cup, and have only won the league twice in our history. We are the definition of upper mid-table safety. And that probably transmits directly to the players, consciously or subconsciously. After all, why try harder when the last great era to live up to was fifty one years ago?

The only way that'll change is if we;

a)have a period of sustained success, which seems unlikely at the present time,

b)hire a Ferguson, Wenger, or Nicholson; an inspirational, one-club manager who will rebrand the entire club and bring us an era of unprecedented success, which, again, seems unlikely given present candidates,

c)get bought by a billionaire who bankrolls us to a title or two, which will stay in the books long after the knowledge that we cheated to get them will, or

d)find a magnificently talented/inspirational leader-like player or two in our youth academy who professes a fierce loyalty to the club and is willing to stick around at the club for however long it takes for it to finally flourish, which seems...optimistic, at best.

Until one or more of the above four happen, that malaise is not going away. For better or for worse, all the clubs we're aiming to measure up against have had either enormous luck, inspirational management, boatloads of money or a fiercely loyal and talented group of players to call upon. We haven't had any of these, and that's why we appear to be the poor relations to the rest of these competitors.

Still, one day our luck will change, and we will get our own luck. One day.

One day.

Completely agree with this by the way. Great post.

 

[ArcspacE]

b)hire a Ferguson, Wenger, or Nicholson; an inspirational, one-club manager

Just remember - those names were largerly 'nobodies' prior to becoming managers respectively so we could very well shape a new name in management over the next decade or so.

i.e. - we shouldn't always look at the CV but be prepared to take a punt on someone young and fresh

 

[tynesidespur]

Lol I meant between the 2 posts that Arc pointed out. Yea I always change my mind. I guess I'm starting to notice it everywhere now. All grounds tend to turn on their own players, teams very quickly, and there aren't any real examples of teams who really get behind the side when they need it most.

I think that post you were talking about was when we used to go a goal down and never come back from! Yes the crowd did get anxious then. But we seemed to turn the corner then.

I think expectancy isn't set by the fans really but more the things that DubaiSpur mentioned earlier:

a)period of sustained success
b)hire a Ferguson, Wenger, or Nicholson; an inspirational, one-club manager
c)get bought by a billionaire who bankrolls us to a title or two
d)find a magnificently talented/inspirational leader-like player or two in our youth academy who professes a fierce loyalty to the club

Fair do's - I think it was when we went a goal down and never came back.

Agree with DubaiSpur's post too. It is very accurate.

One thing to add to that. Was watching "Football's Greatest Managers" which I recorded from Sky a few months back and they did a profile of Fabio Capello. Putting aside the England job he has been successful at every club he went to. His attitude (and all the greats seem to have this) was to always look forwards, never look back on what you've achieved and bask in it. As soon as a league title was achieved or a European Cup success he was looking at the next challenge.
When he went to Roma he won the Scudetto in his second season - a feat they had only managed twice previously in their entire history. After that he was ready to push on and win more trophies but he said the team and the entire city were ready to party and celebrate that success for more than 6 months afterwards. After a couple of seasons he realised he wouldn't be able to replicate that success.
I've always thought of Roma as a massive club but they've only won the Italian league 3 times in their history (once during WW2). Sound similar to another football club in England :-"
I wonder if we got in a managerial great if something similar would happen here...

 

[Essex Yid]

Has anyone has read the cracking book 'Vertigo' by Spurs fan John Crace? Great read, and sums up what it is like to be Spurs fan. There's a great passage where he discusses how he wouldn't enjoy being a United fan, winning everything, but at the same time is glad he doesn't support someone totally crap that never has a chance of winning anything.

I guess it is part of supporting Spurs, and this season has been such a typically 'Tottenham' season it is laughable. A great start, playing brilliant football, our hopes and dreams built up... and then complete capitulation.

Yes I'd like to see us be more successful and win more, but at the same time genuinely would hate to support a team who always won. As people have said, whatever happens we'll always be here, and in a way are hooked on the drama of constant failure.

 

[1882]

I don't buy the 'spoilt' argument... Man Utd, Chelsea and ArseAnal were 'spoilt' the first time they challenged for/won the title... doesn't mean they've given up at the second time of asking... no, they've CONTINUED to push for honours, 'cos each and every one of their managers has had a winners mentality... if you win the league, GREAT... now let's win another one!
Rather than our poxy excuse for a manager, whose mantra seems to be; "well, you haven't won the league since '61, you should be glad of a Top 4 finish, and now sink back to your rightful place of mid-table... fudge off you twitchy c u n t... we GOT 4th, that was fantastic... now how about we fudging BUILD on that, rather than being happy with our lot, and leaving it there...

if you have a taste of something you like, you WANT MORE... and sorry Harry, I'm sure it wasn't the same in your day, where everyone drove for the Kray Twins, and Luvved their Muvver, and left their back door open... but we live in demanding times... we've made massive strides in the few years you've bothered to be here... and I'm sorry, but we like the taste of it, and we wanted more... sorry if that clashes with your view of what us soppy Yids should be thankful for... but we take one look at ArseAnal who have qualified for the CL 16 fudging years in a row... we see their fudging poxy c u n t fans threatening to put black bin bags on their seats the moment they have two consecutive defeats, and we think... fudge you, you don't know when you're well off!

There's an old saying about playing with your toys correctly, or you might have them taken away... well, I quite like playing with the toys we've got... I don't want some clich?®d c o c k n e y c u n t telling me how to, and when to play with them!

We've got an inferiority complex at our club that runs so deep, it'll take years to shake.

 

[diego_maradona]

I don't buy the 'spoilt' argument... Man Utd, Chelsea and ArseAnal were 'spoilt' the first time they challenged for/won the title... doesn't mean they've given up at the second time of asking... no, they've CONTINUED to push for honours, 'cos each and every one of their managers has had a winners mentality... if you win the league, GREAT... now let's win another one!
Rather than our poxy excuse for a manager, whose mantra seems to be; "well, you haven't won the league since '61, you should be glad of a Top 4 finish, and now sink back to your rightful place of mid-table... fudge off you twitchy c u n t... we GOT 4th, that was fantastic... now how about we fudging BUILD on that, rather than being happy with our lot, and leaving it there...

if you have a taste of something you like, you WANT MORE... and sorry Harry, I'm sure it wasn't the same in your day, where everyone drove for the Kray Twins, and Luvved their Muvver, and left their back door open... but we live in demanding times... we've made massive strides in the few years you've bothered to be here... and I'm sorry, but we like the taste of it, and we wanted more... sorry if that clashes with your view of what us soppy Yids should be thankful for... but we take one look at ArseAnal who have qualified for the CL 16 fudging years in a row... we see their fudging poxy c u n t fans threatening to put black bin bags on their seats the moment they have two consecutive defeats, and we think... fudge you, you don't know when you're well off!

There's an old saying about playing with your toys correctly, or you might have them taken away... well, I quite like playing with the toys we've got... I don't want some clich?®d c o c k n e y c u n t telling me how to, and when to play with them!

We've got an inferiority complex at our club that runs so deep, it'll take years to shake.

Or money and Mourinho.

 

[Modric THFC]

I don't buy the 'spoilt' argument... Man Utd, Chelsea and ArseAnal were 'spoilt' the first time they challenged for/won the title... doesn't mean they've given up at the second time of asking... no, they've CONTINUED to push for honours, 'cos each and every one of their managers has had a winners mentality... if you win the league, GREAT... now let's win another one!
Rather than our poxy excuse for a manager, whose mantra seems to be; "well, you haven't won the league since '61, you should be glad of a Top 4 finish, and now sink back to your rightful place of mid-table... fudge off you twitchy c u n t... we GOT 4th, that was fantastic... now how about we fudging BUILD on that, rather than being happy with our lot, and leaving it there...

if you have a taste of something you like, you WANT MORE... and sorry Harry, I'm sure it wasn't the same in your day, where everyone drove for the Kray Twins, and Luvved their Muvver, and left their back door open... but we live in demanding times... we've made massive strides in the few years you've bothered to be here... and I'm sorry, but we like the taste of it, and we wanted more... sorry if that clashes with your view of what us soppy Yids should be thankful for... but we take one look at ArseAnal who have qualified for the CL 16 fudging years in a row... we see their fudging poxy c u n t fans threatening to put black bin bags on their seats the moment they have two consecutive defeats, and we think... fudge you, you don't know when you're well off!

There's an old saying about playing with your toys correctly, or you might have them taken away... well, I quite like playing with the toys we've got... I don't want some clich?®d c o c k n e y c u n t telling me how to, and when to play with them!

We've got an inferiority complex at our club that runs so deep, it'll take years to shake.

A load of new plastic fans who don't remember us being unsuccessful would soon change that. Look at Chelsea and Arsenal.

 

[diego_maradona]

Forget everything I said.

It's ALL TO DO WITH LUCK.

 

[Park Lane James]

Prime example of the psychology of some of our fans - Villa away has gone to general sale. You can guanrantee if we were challenging for the title or still in third place then it would have gone to loyalty points.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Prime example of the psychology of some of our fans - Villa away has gone to general sale. You can guanrantee if we were challenging for the title or still in third place then it would have gone to loyalty points.

I can empathise with the disappointment but those feeling it more have only brought it on themselves.

We had a brilliant run of form and results at the back end of last year BUT it was pretty obvious we were OVER achieving. Unfortunately some took that as our natural level of performance and expected the form to continue when it clearly could not. Those fans effectively created a self fulfilling prophecy of disappointment, probably exasperated by the fact they were gloating towards Arsenal and Chelsea fans because we had opened up a bit of a gap due to the kindness of the fixture list of all respective teams. Now they've been made to look a little foolish which only compounds their misery and their bitterness in the way the season is panning out.