Politics, politics, politics

[SpurMeUp]

It needs something monumental for that to happen and a general election before March 2019.

I think that we will end up taking a far longer transition deal than the government currently admits though. We will not be ready to leave until at least the middle of the next decade. There has been no movement on this and the institutions and infrastructure we will need will take a long time to set up and establish. On top of this, a future trade deal will take far longer to negotiate and ratify than the government will admit.

Nothing to worry about though, I am sure that it is all covered in the impact assessments.

There will come a point when Politicians are brave enough to be honest about all this. The time hasn't come yet, but when it does, it will be a deluge with everyone jumping on it. MPs will then have to act in parliament and an election or referendum will have to follow.

The UK is now poorer as a direct consequence of Brexit, our growth is the lowest of all the top economies in the world, and Brexit still shows no light at the end of it. I mean what is we get at the end of the process? Where is the good news? Even a Singapore model is pie in the sky as the EU would not give us trade terms if we're undercutting them. The UK is suffering massive cuts to investment, reduced government spending (again), new demands on spending (paying for regulators and paying the EU) and we lose rights to trade and move completely freely with our neighbours. Brexit will remain the Emperors New Clothes, then suddenly capitulate. It will be case of how to save face.

What is the other scenario? A year and half in, where is the great Brexit vision? How will the UK shape up post Brexit? What is the aim? No one seems to know.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Congratulations. You've just found the way of crashing the coalition, causing a general election and stopping Brexit.

It needs to be a secret deal done with the Irish government for now. A border poll fixed for the end of 2022 in exchange for enabling Brexit now.

 

[Gutter Boy]

We always have been sovereign. The Exiting the EU bill makes this clear. We will end up trading sovereignty for trade deals worth far less than the one we are leaving.

We can't nationalise industries
We can't stop PFIs
We can't stop big business importing low wage labour
We can't stop big business bullying governments over tax
We can't control immigration numbers to initiate population decrease
We can't ban planned obsolesce or incentivise localism

Being forced to be neo-liberal isn't sovereignty in my book

 

[milo]

It needs to be a secret deal done with the Irish government for now. A border poll fixed for the end of 2022 in exchange for enabling Brexit now.

There would be zero chance of keeping it secret.

Why would Ireland settle for that over what they are currently asking for, a written commitment from the UK government on what several ministers have said publicly, that there will be no return to a hard border?

Of course, we know that the UK government cannot give this guarantee because it is only achievable by staying in the SM and by having a customs union.

 

[milo]

We can't nationalise industries
We can't stop PFIs
We can't stop big business importing low wage labour
We can't stop big business bullying governments over tax
We can't control immigration numbers to initiate population decrease
We can't ban planned obsolesce or incentivise localism

Being forced to be neo-liberal isn't sovereignty in my book

We can do all of those things within the EU. We have chosen not to.

Leaving will weaken our position trying to stand up to big business, this is only achievable through international cooperation. You are the only person I have heard argue that planed population decrease whilst dealing with an aging population is desirable.

 

[Rorschach]

It's a very easy one in my book

And give the oranges dual citizenship so they can move back to Scotland if they really want.

Apparently the latest stats suggest the Republicans are now about 38,000 people short of a majority (and shrinking every month). They'll have their 50% +1 before the end of the decade.

It is not an easy one and Ireland can veto any trade talks before they begin if they don't like what's on offer.

A united Ireland won't be any time soon but it is probably inevitability in the years to come. For now though any separate agreement for NI would look to unionists like a step towards a united Ireland no matter the benefits, and at the moment the DUP will not let that happen. But their kingmaker position won't always be there and maybe they should see this as an opportunity to put the province in a unique and key position within the UK. One foot in both camps.

 

[DeleHarry]

Making the super rich richer whilst the rest of us bear the cost.

What's new? Seriously that is what has happened in the last 10-20 years anyway

 

[milo]

There will come a point when Politicians are brave enough to be honest about all this. The time hasn't come yet, but when it does, it will be a deluge with everyone jumping on it. MPs will then have to act in parliament and an election or referendum will have to follow.

The UK is now poorer as a direct consequence of Brexit, our growth is the lowest of all the top economies in the world, and Brexit still shows no light at the end of it. I mean what is we get at the end of the process? Where is the good news? Even a Singapore model is pie in the sky as the EU would not give us trade terms if we're undercutting them. The UK is suffering massive cuts to investment, reduced government spending (again), new demands on spending (paying for regulators and paying the EU) and we lose rights to trade and move completely freely with our neighbours. Brexit will remain the Emperors New Clothes, then suddenly capitulate. It will be case of how to save face.

What is the other scenario? A year and half in, where is the great Brexit vision? How will the UK shape up post Brexit? What is the aim? No one seems to know.

I cannot see a reverse under the current government.

I agree that in ten years time, most people will deny ever having supported it.

 

[DTA]

He would have to be wrong first before he could admit it and he is not wrong.

This is a guy who didnt rate dembele, Erickson and Toby. Im not sure his views on politics are any better than his views on football. Said with love GB.

 

[DTA]

Wrong about what? The principle that countries should be governed by sovereign national governments, rather than unaccountable theocracies. You can't buy my belief in that for any price.

Yet another Brexit untruth.

 

[Gutter Boy]

The UK is now poorer as a direct consequence of Brexit, our growth is the lowest of all the top economies in the world, and Brexit still shows no light at the end of it. I mean what is we get at the end of the process? Where is the good news? Even a Singapore model is pie in the sky as the EU would not give us trade terms if we're undercutting them. The UK is suffering massive cuts to investment, reduced government spending (again), new demands on spending (paying for regulators and paying the EU) and we lose rights to trade and move completely freely with our neighbours. Brexit will remain the Emperors New Clothes, then suddenly capitulate. It will be case of how to save face.

Who is poorer? Not me. Not you. Not any of the 99%. A few elites might have the inconvenience of having move more of their assets into tax havens is all.

Growth isn't a measure of anything good. All it measures is how rapidly we are devouring the planet.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I cannot see a reverse under the current government.

I agree that in ten years time, most people will deny ever having supported it.

I think ten years is an over estimation. Just look on here, how many posters remain passionate about Leaving the EU? Only Scara's bot?

 

[r-u-s-x]

Who is poorer? Not me. Not you. Not any of the 99%. A few elites might have the inconvenience of having move more of their assets into tax havens is all.

Growth isn't a measure of anything good. All it measures is how rapidly we are devouring the planet.

I'm not getting a raise or bonus this year (so in real terms a paycut) while inflation is creeping up, mortgage payments increasing all direct consequences of Brexit... I am getting poorer

 

[SpurMeUp]

Who is poorer? Not me. Not you. Not any of the 99%. A few elites might have the inconvenience of having move more of their assets into tax havens is all.

Growth isn't a measure of anything good. All it measures is how rapidly we are devouring the planet.

Everyone is poorer. The Chancellor in the last Budget announced we're now the 6th largest economy in the world, we've dropped a place from 5th, and the UKs tax revenues have diminished. The cash 'head room' the Chancellor had has evaporated. That means less spent on us. Less tax cuts, less spending on the NHS, schools, roads you name it.

If you go on holiday or buy anything that's imported, you are paying circa 15% more than you did pre-vote. So its the opposite of your assertion. We're all poorer bar the elite who keep their cash off shore in dollar denominations - if they are smart.

 

[milo]

What's new? Seriously that is what has happened in the last 10-20 years anyway

The Legatum Institute's (who are driving government Brexit policy) modus operandi is crashing the economy so that the mega rich can buy up assets cheap. This is from a recent Private Eye

 

[Gutter Boy]

We can do all of those things within the EU. We have chosen not to.

Leaving will weaken our position trying to stand up to big business, this is only achievable through international cooperation. You are the only person I have heard argue that planed population decrease whilst dealing with an aging population is desirable.

Nope - state aid laws, anti-competition laws and freedom of movement expressly forbids them.

If we are shrinking the economy and introducing more state control, we won't have to pander to big business at all. Localism should be incentivised to fill its place

All the world's problems are caused by overpopulation. We need to manage the decrease carefully so it is gradual. Healthy ageing is the key (Japan have already got this sussed with their decreasing and ageing population), along with de-growth measures like universal basic income.

 

[DTA]

Who is poorer? Not me. Not you. Not any of the 99%. A few elites might have the inconvenience of having move more of their assets into tax havens is all.

Growth isn't a measure of anything good. All it measures is how rapidly we are devouring the planet.

What planet are you living on? Inflation has risen, that means the cost of everything has gone up. So yes you are getting poorer. Growth lags behind the rest of the developed world and public spending continues to be cut. And now we have to pay 100billion for a worse deal than we have now... seriously WTF????

But the worst thing about this is... We haven't even left yet.... the worst is still to come. Anyone that thinks we will get better trade deals with big economies like China and the USA than we would as part of the EU is on crack. We will get bent over... why? Because we will be the minor partner in any such trade deal. Ie the bigger economies will pretty much dictate the terms.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Everyone is poorer. The Chancellor in the last Budget announced we're now the 6th largest economy in the world, we've dropped a place from 5th, and the UKs tax revenues have diminished. The cash 'head room' the Chancellor had has evaporated. That means less spent on us. Less tax cuts, less spending on the NHS, schools, roads you name it.

If you go on holiday or buy anything that's imported, you are paying circa 15% more than you did pre-vote. So its the opposite of your assertion. We're all poorer bar the elite who keep their cash off shore in dollar denominations - if they are smart.

It's not real though. Most tax is wasted on keeping people in pointless jobs, because work is now being used as an opiate. Late Capitalism is coming off the rails, but it's not something that needs to be propped up any longer or a change to be feared.

 

[milo]

I think ten years is an over estimation. Just look on here, how many posters remain passionate about Leaving the EU? Only Scara's bot?

I'm not sure that this board is that representative of the general population and some Brexit supporting posters have said that they have stopped posting in this thread. I am not sure that we can take their silence to be a change of mind.

We are seeing some movement in the opinion polls but not enough to make politicians change their position. They will not do that unless they think they might lose their seat through supporting Brexit. I think that support for remaining in the EU needs to be significantly (something like 60% - 40%) ahead of leave for several months that to happen.

 

[DTA]

The Legatum Institute's (who are driving government Brexit policy) modus operandi is crashing the economy so that the mega rich can buy up assets cheap. This is from a recent Private Eye

Disaster capitalism I think it's called.