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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

P.D. said:
They'll have even less if EU students are able to pay the same fees as UK students, I'm sure I read universities make a loss on each UK student even at £9K a year. They're all propped up by grants and overseas fees.
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Yeah, absolutely. Students cost £12k but are only funded at £9k. The extortionate international fees make up the difference.

The proposal though is that the government will fund at least the £3k shortfall to universities if the EU student goes ahead, as it's effectively the UK's fee for entering that completely unrelated Made in Europe scheme.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Yeah, absolutely. Students cost £12k but are only funded at £9k. The extortionate international fees make up the difference.

The proposal though is that the government will fund at least the £3k shortfall to universities if the EU student goes ahead, as it's effectively the UK's fee for entering that completely unrelated Made in Europe scheme.
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The potential net value is lower though, there will be a higher percentage of students paying the UK rate and there's probably only a handful of places like LSE, Cambridge etc that could raise international fees to make up the difference.
 
P.D. said:
The potential net value is lower though, there will be a higher percentage of students paying the UK rate and there's probably only a handful of places like LSE, Cambridge etc that could raise international fees to make up the difference.
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There haven't been many European students since Brexit. They just didn't bother paying the international fees, and were replaced by Indians and Nigerians etc.. So it's not international fee payers converting to home fees, its potentially an expansion (to help counter the demographic drop of British 18 year olds).
 
Ace Face said:
Of course it ties both parties together. There are drawbacks, as in if the stock tumbles or the company goes out of business, but if the Govt were gifted the shares in the first place they won’t suffer the losses.

Not saying I’ve got a business plan in place but it would be an effective method of addressing inequality. Imagine if this could pay for universal healthcare in the US for example?
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Haha you're not following the golden rule.
Follow the money.

It's because they need data centers, and that is going to be the biggest political hot potato in the next ten years

So what do you do? Drag the government into your corner by giving them a fair chunk of your company gratis.
 
Asking perhaps a really silly or obvious question - what is it we (the general population) need all these new data centres for?

My understanding is that it is primarily to run and improve AI. Is there actually any necessity to them?
 
Lost Mango said:
Asking perhaps a really silly or obvious question - what is it we (the general population) need all these new data centres for?

My understanding is that it is primarily to run and improve AI. Is there actually any necessity to them?
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I understand the 'why' as it is about the growing storage needs and future scaling of data usage but many of the arguments 'for' seem to start talking about centralising, removing the needs for servers remotely and bringing them into a centralised facility. My concern would be that it takes away control from the business and puts many businesses at risk, especially as we can now see that these data centres are going to be targets. Why would anyone connect a strategic assets to an external network in this day and age? Yet 'the system' forces us to. You can barely have a brick without subscribing to something.
 
Thanks @Clarky

Isn't it datum for data sake rather than actual necessity, the latest Wizard of Oz smokescreen where a small group of people are monetarising something and claiming it as an absolute necessity for the future? Just the latest form of commercialisation to feed the economic model that we already know is unsustainable and broken.
 
Gutter Boy said:
There haven't been many European students since Brexit. They just didn't bother paying the international fees, and were replaced by Indians and Nigerians etc.. So it's not international fee payers converting to home fees, its potentially an expansion (to help counter the demographic drop of British 18 year olds).
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I don't know if it's same in England but Scotland seems to be predominantly Chinese students.
Or it was, but because they are effectively funding Scottish students the cost is so high that they are dwindling.
Now the Scottish Universities have eye watering levels of debt they can't afford to take Scottish students.
 
Gutter Boy said:
There haven't been many European students since Brexit. They just didn't bother paying the international fees, and were replaced by Indians and Nigerians etc.. So it's not international fee payers converting to home fees, its potentially an expansion (to help counter the demographic drop of British 18 year olds).
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The point is once the fees come down more of them will come, universities aren't miraculously going to expand - they will simply receive less income. It's not a good deal, UK universities are highly respected and the demand for them is likely to be far higher than it will for UK students going the other way (partly also to do with the language).
 
glasgowspur said:
I don't know if it's same in England but Scotland seems to be predominantly Chinese students.
Or it was, but because they are effectively funding Scottish students the cost is so high that they are dwindling.
Now the Scottish Universities have eye watering levels of debt they can't afford to take Scottish students.
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The Chinese are steadily pulling their students out of western universities. Its always been their plan. Upskill a generation, then send future ones through their upgraded domestic system. A lot that you assume are Chinese now are Taiwanese or Singaporean
 
P.D. said:
The point is once the fees come down more of them will come, universities aren't miraculously going to expand - they will simply receive less income. It's not a good deal, UK universities are highly respected and the demand for them is likely to be far higher than it will for UK students going the other way (partly also to do with the language).
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Universities can cap domestic places and maintain foreign fee income. It just means the new European applicants will be competing against the British 18 year olds for a limited number of places. That's why the government are trying to negotiate a quota
 
Lost Mango said:
Thanks @Clarky

Isn't it datum for data sake rather than actual necessity, the latest Wizard of Oz smokescreen where a small group of people are monetarising something and claiming it as an absolute necessity for the future? Just the latest form of commercialisation to feed the economic model that we already know is unsustainable and broken.
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Yep the machine is being fed and we are being milked. In Britain our model is even more flawed as we have to have a number of intermediaries in the supply chain, all on the grift equally. You can't have the 100tb brick now because they need to sell you the 5tb pebble, then the 10tb brick and that is all planned for the next few years. Not sure what the product cycle is but it is all a closed loop with planned software driving tech sales. Look at phones and people's peculiar obsession with buying the + model because it has a 2mm wider lens or 1 extra megapixel for them to not appreciate on their 6.82" upgraded screen. If you build it they will cum. Tech comes at us so fast that we become the testbed.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Universities can cap domestic places and maintain foreign fee income. It just means the new European applicants will be competing against the British 18 year olds for a limited number of places. That's why the government are trying to negotiate a quota
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I'm not sure they can cap domestic places - how will that go down if they start doing that and preventing UK students taking up places. It will probably be the next battle line.
 
P.D. said:
I'm not sure they can cap domestic places - how will that go down if they start doing that and preventing UK students taking up places. It will probably be the next battle line.
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Unless you return them to being properly state funded, they will have to behave like businesses
 
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