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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

SteveAWOL said:
Very fine people…

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My overwhelming feeling watching that video clip is one of sadness. I genuinely do not believe most people holding those flags or picking up those wooden crosses or chanting 'we want Starmer out' or saying 'on the march - let's go!' are actually racists at heart. Not at all. I think they are a disaffected, hurt, probably somewhat fiscally suffering bunch of people who have been convinced to sip the Kool Aid of some particularly skilled and clever grifters who are using them and their discontent. So many of 'them' have so much in common with so many of 'us' when it comes to current living conditions and the like. The divide and conquer is reaching dangerous levels, because MOST people have the same hopes, fears, and realities right now. It's just a case of diverting them from these distractions and showing them how they're being used.
 
Gutter Boy said:
The guy with both the cross and the star of david really doesn't know what is going on does he. It's like a half-and-half scarf for facist button men.
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That's the whole point! So many are bewildered and have some legitimate reasons to be angry. Thing is, they're the same reasons as most people and involve the same protagonists. The problem is when someone sells them the idea that it is all down to 'waves' of black and brown people, when it's ACTUALLY down the a handful of well-tailored, largely invisible billionaire grifters manipulating societies against each other...but you know that I know mate...
 
thfcsteff said:
My overwhelming feeling watching that video clip is one of sadness. I genuinely do not believe most people holding those flags or picking up those wooden crosses or chanting 'we want Starmer out' or saying 'on the march - let's go!' are actually racists at heart. Not at all. I think they are a disaffected, hurt, probably somewhat fiscally suffering bunch of people who have been convinced to sip the Kool Aid of some particularly skilled and clever grifters who are using them and their discontent. So many of 'them' have so much in common with so many of 'us' when it comes to current living conditions and the like. The divide and conquer is reaching dangerous levels, because MOST people have the same hopes, fears, and realities right now. It's just a case of diverting them from these distractions and showing them how they're being used.
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I agree with the principles you've stated, but not the get out clause for those people.
We live in the information age - there is no excuse anymore for going down those routes until it is either what you actually believe or are comfortable to accept.
Everyone has the tools to be different in their pocket - whether it's needing to learn critical thinking or counselling for self esteem or information about the reality of right wing tropes.

Staying in that mind set in the information age is a choice. Look at the likes of Marky (or whatever his current username is) - been given the alternative information and arguments but still chooses to believe misinformation because he is now allowed to air his prejudices. Those are his to own, as they are for those in that video.
 
monkeybarry said:
I agree with the principles you've stated, but not the get out clause for those people.
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I think this is absolutely true too, yes.


monkeybarry said:
We live in the information age - there is no excuse anymore for going down those routes until it is either what you actually believe or are comfortable to accept.
Everyone has the tools to be different in their pocket - whether it's needing to learn critical thinking or counselling for self esteem or information about the reality of right wing tropes.
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I think that is part of the huge issue. We do live in the information age, and discerning between what information is solid versus not requires a skillset I see as being beyond the reach of many people. We all fall for it sometimes. I think making the step to gaining those tools for critical thought or counseling are simply not binary. One of the many issues the manosphere has brought up, for example, is this return to toxic masculinity which comes with a whole raft of issues around things like counseling (sadly).


monkeybarry said:
Staying in that mind set in the information age is a choice.
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I do not agree that is always the case. I wish it was that black and white.

monkeybarry said:
Look at the likes of Marky (or whatever his current username is) - been given the alternative information and arguments but still chooses to believe misinformation because he is now allowed to air his prejudices. Those are his to own, as they are for those in that video.
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I don't know Marky well enough to say who he is in that regard. We have been on the forum together for many many years, but have never met. The same as many here, I think conversation over a pint would clarify much.

It's a great discussion because for me, the whole topic is a dialectic in so much as what you say is true in many senses and it really is not as black and white as saying everybody has control to make the right decisions. I wish it were so.
 
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