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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

MartyFunkhouser said:
I think there is a massive under appreciation of what comes with local grass roots council politics. Thats not me stating here, but in general.

Its hard work and alot of the good councilors who work hard lobbying for better standards will have been needlessly flushed out.

I know a couple who spend hours in groups round the community engaging with elderly, social care groups etc. I dont doubt there will be good councilors that come out of this for Reform but I do wonder how many were token to send a message
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There is going to become a lot of appreciation very quickly!
 
monkeybarry said:
And honestly, that's fine.
We needed a few years of a technocrat after the Johnson Era (Truss and Sunak are tag on).

Starmers team have done some good stuff, but got some headline grabbing stuff wrong.
You have to get the headline stuff right, or make the stuff you get right the headline; and they've failed miserably on the last bit.

Populism is still at the forefront of political delivery, and it's the bold talking era. The Lib Dems tried quirky, Labour tried sensible - it's Farage and Polanski that are cutting through.
Labour need Angela Rayner. Otherwise they just get drowned out by Farage, Polanksi, Baydenoc.
The Lib Dems - Daisy Cooper can help them be heard, not Ed Davey.

I suspect we'll see moves to get Rayners investigation fast tracked, and she'll be PM by August/September.
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I think Rayner would be a disaster.

Apparently she’s unsure herself whether she has the attributes for the PM job (not a good starting point); the tax issue is unresolved and would be pursued relentlessly by the media; and I think she wouldn’t appeal at all to Middle England voters (mostly for reasons which, at a fundamental level, would be related to class snobbery).

Personally I think Burnham is a shifty opportunist - and it’s worth noting the battering Labour have just taken in Manchester - but he’d be a better shout than Rayner, I think.
 
Was chatting to my mate on phone yesterday and he had an interesting POV, he thought with so many hung councils it might focus councillors on working together rather than following "the party line", I thought it might lead to stalemates and actions being held up and that his idea was based on sensible people working for the good of the community and experience shows me that's not always the case.
 
Mikey10 said:
I think Rayner would be a disaster.

Apparently she’s unsure herself whether she has the attributes for the PM job (not a good starting point); the tax issue is unresolved and would be pursued relentlessly by the media; and I think she wouldn’t appeal at all to Middle England voters (mostly for reasons which, at a fundamental level, would be related to class snobbery).

Personally I think Burnham is a shifty opportunist - and it’s worth noting the battering Labour have just taken in Manchester - but he’d be a better shout than Rayner, I think.
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If Angela Rayner even stands the working-class-misogyny will be off the scale in the media.
I would like to see her back in the cabinet, but only if she gets the all-clear from the HMRC investigation. But I don't see her as a PM, or certainly not at this stage.

Burnham standing would leave a big risk of Labour losing the mayorality of Greater Manchester (I assume it would need to go to a re-election?). And he would have to find a very, very safe seat to stand in, which given the current political temperature cannot be guaranteed, plus consitutents in whichever seat it is might not be happy with being used in this way. Never mind that the Labour National Executive would have to approve him, and they were firmly against it recently (but that position might change if Starmer has agreed to step down).
He would probably bring some unity to the Labour party though.

Streeting is the other name very much in the frame, but is never going to be accepted by the left of the Labour party.

I am struggling to think of someone who has the necessary pull within the party and the required gravitas for the post (especially with so much focus on international affairs right now). It's all a huge mess but they need to get it resolved quickly, and certainly before the Labour conference in I think September.
 
monkeybarry said:
And honestly, that's fine.
We needed a few years of a technocrat after the Johnson Era (Truss and Sunak are tag on).

Starmers team have done some good stuff, but got some headline grabbing stuff wrong.
You have to get the headline stuff right, or make the stuff you get right the headline; and they've failed miserably on the last bit.

Populism is still at the forefront of political delivery, and it's the bold talking era. The Lib Dems tried quirky, Labour tried sensible - it's Farage and Polanski that are cutting through.
Labour need Angela Rayner. Otherwise they just get drowned out by Farage, Polanksi, Baydenoc.
The Lib Dems - Daisy Cooper can help them be heard, not Ed Davey.

I suspect we'll see moves to get Rayners investigation fast tracked, and she'll be PM by August/September.
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Politics should be boring, the PM should be most boring of all, it’s an admin job.

Personality shouldn’t be a factor when appointing an administrator.

It’s not a fudging TV show.
 
Smear apparently

Surely the correct answer is "yeh thats abhorrent and there is no place for racism anywhere in the UK"

Why is there such reticence to call out blatant levels of racism in this country?

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Mikey10 said:
I think Rayner would be a disaster.

Apparently she’s unsure herself whether she has the attributes for the PM job (not a good starting point); the tax issue is unresolved and would be pursued relentlessly by the media; and I think she wouldn’t appeal at all to Middle England voters (mostly for reasons which, at a fundamental level, would be related to class snobbery).

Personally I think Burnham is a shifty opportunist - and it’s worth noting the battering Labour have just taken in Manchester - but he’d be a better shout than Rayner, I think.
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I think that’s great starting point, wanting to be PM should be an instant disqualifier to being PM.
 
Mikey10 said:
I think Rayner would be a disaster.

Apparently she’s unsure herself whether she has the attributes for the PM job (not a good starting point); the tax issue is unresolved and would be pursued relentlessly by the media; and I think she wouldn’t appeal at all to Middle England voters (mostly for reasons which, at a fundamental level, would be related to class snobbery).

Personally I think Burnham is a shifty opportunist - and it’s worth noting the battering Labour have just taken in Manchester - but he’d be a better shout than Rayner, I think.
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I tend to agree with all of that - but I'm not sure it matters that much.
We seem to be at a point where the order of preference is, in order:
Style of oration
Sound bite
Bandwagon
Style of leader
Policy impact and outcome.

It's very possible for Labour that the answer is they don't have anyone suitable.
Reyner would do the things the others can't:
I. Tackle Farage on his attack style level
II. Shout about the achievements.
II b. She might also be able to brush off the negatives in the same style.

We're in the social media ago - being seen and making noise is more important than substance for a lot of people. And those noises define how they feel, which dictates how they vote.
The likes of most people in this thread are no longer the target audience for politicians.

On the Labour note, they might be best to have a completely new face come through.
Caroline West is on manoeuvres.
And there is a guy who I think currently has the whip suspended - real northern chap; straight talking, sounds northern. Those kinds of characters might be good.

The class snobs won't change. I doubt they've left the Tories; the target now is the people that feel downtrodden and consider themselves working class.
Starmer was always on a hiding to nothing and needed a perfect two years of politics and marketing. They get 50% for the politics and close to zero for the marketing. You can't convince people you're improving their lives if you don't show them how - we live in a world of immediacy; politicians (real ones) have to convince the public again to be patient and earn trust. It's a huge ask at anytime; even moreso when there is charismatic con artist promising the world with a loud hailer at the same time
 
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