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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

thfcsteff said:
I think the biggest doubt there is the 'electoral support' thing. Sadly, it feels like instead, the usual agents of misfortune are taking advantage of an increasingly impoverished and downtrodden society by throwing up the usual screens and bafflers as 'the reasons' rather than the fattening of the few over the many...
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Corbyn nearly got there. The anti-semitism and Brexit u-turn cost him it in the end, but there was very nearly a youthquake. People born after 1970 have never known a left-wing government, so it terms of a genuine alternative, it should be easy to sell.

3.5 years is plenty of time to build the hope not hate momentum. People under 50 not reading newspapers is possibly improving the situation too, in terms of detaching the masses from the puppet masters.

I think my biggest concern at the moment is just another pink tory like Streeting replacing Starmer before Burnham can get a seat.
 
LutonSpurs said:
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Brexit folk. You got well and truly duped.
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Brexit was a successful psyop on about half of the British electorate. There was a huge amount of motivated reasoning at play, of course. The pump was primed from years of right-wing media agitprop. Thankfully, the trend now is moving toward closer cooperation. Anything else, particularly in this geopolitical landscape, makes no sense, even at the basic level of national self-preservation. Yes, it is a slow crawl, but there is a definite change of momentum (no pun intended) towards Europe again. I have a low opinion of Starmer. He is a bad politician and a man devoid of imagination, but even his flaccid political weather vane has finally swung around to point in the correct direction.
 
Rorschach said:
Brexit was a successful psyop on about half of the British electorate. There was a huge amount of motivated reasoning at play, of course. The pump was primed from years of right-wing media agitprop. Thankfully, the trend now is moving toward closer cooperation. Anything else, particularly in this geopolitical landscape, makes no sense, even at the basic level of national self-preservation. Yes, it is a slow crawl, but there is a definite change of momentum (no pun intended) towards Europe again. I have a low opinion of Starmer. He is a bad politician and a man devoid of imagination, but even his flaccid political weather vane has finally swung around to point in the correct direction.
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International co-operation shouldnt just be europe though. It should be south america, asia pacific, even china. Basically anything away from the axis of evil (america, russia and israel). But that's very different from supernational governance and integration, which just benefits the powerful and disenfranchised the masses
 
Gutter Boy said:
International co-operation shouldnt just be europe though. It should be south america, asia pacific, even china. Basically anything away from the axis of evil (america, russia and israel). But that's very different from supernational governance and integration, which just benefits the powerful and disenfranchised the masses
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There are supranational objectives that transcend national governments, and in this new multipolar global realignment, the UK must see its best ally at this time lies with Europe, as it always was, honestly.
 
Question for Labour supporters here, do you honestly hand on heart think is a good PM and is doing a good job ?
He has lurched from scandal to scandal, lies, broken promises, U-turns and now today
Surely he has shot his bolt
 
WillWeEverBeGoodAgain said:
Question for Labour supporters here, do you honestly hand on heart think is a good PM and is doing a good job ?
He has lurched from scandal to scandal, lies, broken promises, U-turns and now today
Surely he has shot his bolt
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Still better than at least 3 of the last 4 predecessors and less scandalous than BoJo by a distance still. But yeah, think he is probably in a death spiral.

Have no problems with broken promises and U-turns if they are made because initial promises and plans were shown to be problematic. Think this government has actually done quite a lot of decent stuff but the lack of cohesion and tinkle poor communicating doesn't help.
 
WillWeEverBeGoodAgain said:
Question for Labour supporters here, do you honestly hand on heart think is a good PM and is doing a good job ?
He has lurched from scandal to scandal, lies, broken promises, U-turns and now today
Surely he has shot his bolt
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He's meek and a poor communicator, but he's relatively calm and competent after the carnage of Johnson and Truss. He's basically Thomas Frank
 
Gutter Boy said:
International co-operation shouldnt just be europe though. It should be south america, asia pacific, even china. Basically anything away from the axis of evil (america, russia and israel). But that's very different from supernational governance and integration, which just benefits the powerful and disenfranchised the masses
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Even China 🤣
 
Starmer was a centrist wet dream. He abandoned his pro EU positions. Sold all his supposed values down the river to try and out-Reform Reform.

He's dull. Lacks any charisma (unlike Blair). And consistently makes himself look duplicitous.

Burnham is the unity candidate. Maybe he can save us from Reform. But I think reform is what the country wants and what we will get.

Mandelson. Dirty paedo bastard. And pretty much nobody is surprised.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Starmer was a centrist wet dream. He abandoned his pro EU positions. Sold all his supposed values down the river to try and out-Reform Reform.

He's dull. Lacks any charisma (unlike Blair). And consistently makes himself look duplicitous.

Burnham is the unity candidate. Maybe he can save us from Reform. But I think reform is what the country wants and what we will get.

Mandelson. Dirty paedo bastard. And pretty much nobody is surprised.
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He’s just soft really.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Stable, predictable, no militarily expansionist ambitions (Taiwan aside). I think they are the least worst of our potential overlords

I've also read Thucydides, so know we absolutely need to jump in with China against America.
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China looks stable because dissent is suppressed. That doesn’t equal predictability, it’s just means there is no transparency because of the control from the political elites as any negative information is suppressed and we don’t see the fractures.

Systems like this don’t signal instability until they suddenly do. When power is centralized around one leader, policy shifts will be abrupt That’s not stability it’s fragility with good PR.

No military expansionary ambitions…….sure China already had heavily invovled and has been exploiting African minerals for decades. They are very open about the belt and road initative. I guess you think Putin only wants Ukraine and Hitler only wanted to invade Poland.

Economicly Chinas is far more fragile than the US because it’s structurally dependent on exports to wealthy US consumers. The US is not just another trade partner. It is the only major single market.

The UK shares a language and to a large extent a culture with the US. Every issue you have with the US either exists to the same degree or is exponentially worse in China. This type thinking is utter lunacy.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Starmer was a centrist wet dream. He abandoned his pro EU positions. Sold all his supposed values down the river to try and out-Reform Reform.

He's dull. Lacks any charisma (unlike Blair). And consistently makes himself look duplicitous.

Burnham is the unity candidate. Maybe he can save us from Reform. But I think reform is what the country wants and what we will get.

Mandelson. Dirty paedo bastard. And pretty much nobody is surprised.
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Starmer is the choice of a divided party who can't put aside their prejudices or do what is right for the country or even the party.
As the tories have been doing for decades.

Blair was a charlatan and it was obvious to anyone who paid attention. Boris had charisma, so did Hitler, didn't work out to well. Problem is society is heading towards political choices becoming more vapid reality show where the winner is chosen on how they look and spin than on what they are actually capable of.

Burnham looks good just now, but I'm wary he will go full on socialist if given the top job.

Reform is actually what the country needs and deserve. They need reform to realise that there isn't any easy answers, that the issues we face today are complex, multi facited problems with no magic bullet. Maybe once reform have been elected (and I still think it's unlikely) and it's a complete and utter brick show will the penny drop.
The country deserve reform because we elect these basket case governments, we have sleep walked into this almighty mess.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Starmer was a centrist wet dream. He abandoned his pro EU positions. Sold all his supposed values down the river to try and out-Reform Reform.

He's dull. Lacks any charisma (unlike Blair). And consistently makes himself look duplicitous.

Burnham is the unity candidate. Maybe he can save us from Reform. But I think reform is what the country wants and what we will get.

Mandelson. Dirty paedo bastard. And pretty much nobody is surprised.
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Starmer is toast, he can't survive this and nor should he, he is just so so bad.
 
glasgowspur said:
Starmer is the choice of a divided party who can't put aside their prejudices or do what is right for the country or even the party.
As the tories have been doing for decades.

Blair was a charlatan and it was obvious to anyone who paid attention. Boris had charisma, so did Hitler, didn't work out to well. Problem is society is heading towards political choices becoming more vapid reality show where the winner is chosen on how they look and spin than on what they are actually capable of.

Burnham looks good just now, but I'm wary he will go full on socialist if given the top job.

Reform is actually what the country needs and deserve. They need reform to realise that there isn't any easy answers, that the issues we face today are complex, multi facited problems with no magic bullet. Maybe once reform have been elected (and I still think it's unlikely) and it's a complete and utter brick show will the penny drop.
The country deserve reform because we elect these basket case governments, we have sleep walked into this almighty mess.
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Sadly I have sympathy for your point about Reform, Brexit confirmed the opinion I have had for decades about "Democracy" in Britain, our voting population really are the turkeys who would vote for Christmas.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Sadly I have sympathy for your point about Reform, Brexit confirmed the opinion I have had for decades about "Democracy" in Britain, our voting population really are the turkeys who would vote for Christmas.
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My middle kid is doing voter behavior in his Politics A level and is stunned at how the most basic key messages work on the masses. Get Brexit Done. MAGA. Stop the boats. Protect our girls.

People are incredibly duped with what at its literal level is a solid slogan. Problem is the people saying it couldn't give an eff about their target audience. They just want their votes.

We do need to see Reform and see if it brings back glory days.
 
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