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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Silly McSilly Face said:
Given they ended up being killed in hindsight not using their weapons let themselves and their own families down. And they'd have been 100% justified in using them.
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What a crass and obnoxious comment, a typical piece of keyboard bravado ignoring reality and basic humanity.

Not murdering civilians in a moment of panic is not a failure, it is the very thing soldiers are trained to uphold.
 
Trixster said:
What a crass and obnoxious comment, a typical piece of keyboard bravado ignoring reality and basic humanity.

Not murdering civilians in a moment of panic is not a failure, it is the very thing soldiers are trained to uphold.
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They were beaten and killed by those civilians. It was an "IRA funeral" they stumbled upon so are they even civilians? It is not murder to defend yourself.

On another matter - Why don't you stick to the debate rather than getting personal? What is more crass and obnoxious? Expressing an opinion in a polite and civilised manner to challenge the narrative being presented - or your approach. Honestly i think i'm done with this forum. I enjoyed my previous break and the level of debate on here currently is absolute trash.
 
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Silly McSilly Face said:
Given they ended up being killed in hindsight not using their weapons let themselves and their own families down. And they'd have been 100% justified in using them.
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The murder of those two soldiers was one of the most shocking and horrific moments of The Troubles. It has, however, absolutely zero to do with the murder carried out by the ICE agent a few days ago. He was not being swarmed by a large, hostile and angry mob; nor, as the footage shows, was he in any immediate danger.

Even if he felt he was, and perhaps had he been properly trained, he could have shot a tyre out on the car, rather than repeatedly shooting an unarmed civilian at point-blank range, resulting in their death.
 
Mikey10 said:
The murder of those two soldiers was one of the most shocking and horrific moments of The Troubles. It has, however, absolutely zero to do with the murder carried out by the ICE agent a few days ago. He was not being swarmed by a large, hostile and angry mob; nor, as the footage shows, was he in any immediate danger.

Even if he felt he was, and perhaps had he been properly trained, he could have shot a tyre out on the car, rather than repeatedly shooting an unarmed civilian at point-blank range, resulting in their death.
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Shooting at a vehicle to disable it is prohibited under protocol. Its dangerous to shoot at a tyre or engine as tyre blow out instantly ends control and will result in unpredictable movement/collision. You also have danger of oil/fuel igniting.

Discharging a fire arm at a moving vehicle is pretty much against all protocol and must only be done under belief its in self defence or defence of others as vehicle being used as a weapon in which case protocol is to shoot the driver.
 
Mikey10 said:
The murder of those two soldiers was one of the most shocking and horrific moments of The Troubles. It has, however, absolutely zero to do with the murder carried out by the ICE agent a few days ago. He was not being swarmed by a large, hostile and angry mob; nor, as the footage shows, was he in any immediate danger.

Even if he felt he was, and perhaps had he been properly trained, he could have shot a tyre out on the car, rather than repeatedly shooting an unarmed civilian at point-blank range, resulting in their death.
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It's become clear that all training went out the window, its now being widely condemned. When those who are defending it are reciting the constitution or the fact they have immunity etc. No one defending it from what I can see are going into the failures operationally.

Many are also even now saying they shouldn't have even stopped to engage as protocols for such operations are to keep focus on objectives.

Take emotion and politics out and its being presented fairly clearly that there has been an operation failure here on a fairly large scale.

Add politics back in and its likely he will likely get a pass because of the importance of ICE to Vance and Trump.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
It's become clear that all training went out the window, its now being widely condemned. When those who are defending it are reciting the constitution or the fact they have immunity etc. No one defending it from what I can see are going into the failures operationally.

Many are also even now saying they shouldn't have even stopped to engage as protocols for such operations are to keep focus on objectives.

Take emotion and politics out and its being presented fairly clearly that there has been an operation failure here on a fairly large scale.

Add politics back in and its likely he will likely get a pass because of the importance of ICE to Vance and Trump.
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Regardless of which side of this discussion you’re on, and the actual true conclusion of if his actions were lawful and correct, it is absolutely going to result in him getting a free pass either way. He’s being called a hero by Vance who’s a toxic little oxygen thief either way.
 
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Silly McSilly Face said:
They were beaten and killed by those civilians. It was an "IRA funeral" they stumbled upon so are they even civilians? It is not murder to defend yourself.

On another matter - Why don't you stick to the debate rather than getting personal? What is more crass and obnoxious? Expressing an opinion in a polite and civilised manner to challenge the narrative being presented - or your approach. Honestly i think i'm done with this forum. I enjoyed my previous break and the level of debate on here currently is absolute trash.
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I did start writing a long reply then I realised it's pointless. Drive to your nearest barracks & repeat the statements you have made & see what response you get. You fudging piece of brick. I haven't been this angry for a very long time. Think it's time to steer clear of this thread. fudge you
 
Rafa87 said:
Regardless of which side of this discussion you’re on, and the actual true conclusion of if his actions were lawful and correct, it will absolutely going to result in him getting a free pass either way. He’s being called a hero by Vance who’s a toxic little oxygen thief either way.
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Being an Iraq Vet will be used as reason to decorate him, they love that "land of the free" b0llox

The fact he has been a part of a serious of bungled jobs won't come into it.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Shooting at a vehicle to disable it is prohibited under protocol. Its dangerous to shoot at a tyre or engine as tyre blow out instantly ends control and will result in unpredictable movement/collision. You also have danger of oil/fuel igniting.

Discharging a fire arm at a moving vehicle is pretty much against all protocol and must only be done under belief its in self defence or defence of others as vehicle being used as a weapon in which case protocol is to shoot the driver.
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So somewhat akin to the effect of shooting the person who is in control of the moving vehicle?
 
Glenda's Legs said:
So somewhat akin to the effect of shooting the person who is in control of the moving vehicle?
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Correct, its advised by government departments of enforcement not to. That's why the case in Texas of Barnes v Felix case is so complex. There is also now, thankfully, where they look to take emotion out of cases and look at event in their entirety. I doubt that will be applied to a federal freedom fighter for Trump, but its good to see other depts are being judged on their own actions before taking lethal force.

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Silly McSilly Face said:
They were beaten and killed by those civilians. It was an "IRA funeral" they stumbled upon so are they even civilians? It is not murder to defend yourself.

On another matter - Why don't you stick to the debate rather than getting personal? What is more crass and obnoxious? Expressing an opinion in a polite and civilised manner to challenge the narrative being presented - or your approach. Honestly i think i'm done with this forum. I enjoyed my previous break and the level of debate on here currently is absolute trash.
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It's crass because you blame the two men for their own fate by saying they ""let their families down"" by showing restraint and it is obnoxious because you are using hindsight to simply assert the justification of killing people while ignoring all the uncertainty of the situation, confusion and rules that governed the use of force at the time.

Claiming that the crowd are not really civilians (a Scara train of thought) just because it was an IRA funeral, well you are mixing up armed membership with political sympathy there dearie which kinda matters.

I brought this historical event into the discussion as an example of trained personnel showing restraint and not shooting someone in the face, something which this ICE agent (the debate) should have done. He faced a far lesser situation and acted very poorly.

And finally, I wasn't being personal I criticised the viewpoint.
 
kb 1984 said:
I did start writing a long reply then I realised it's pointless. Drive to your nearest barracks & repeat the statements you have made & see what response you get. You fudging piece of brick. I haven't been this angry for a very long time. Think it's time to steer clear of this thread. fudge you
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there is absolutely nothing i said that warrants that kind of response. Not everyone has the same view of everything that you do.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Perfect example of genuine stupidity and lies from Silly. And trolling from Scara. But it's good to see both being made to look incredibly low IQ here. Good work "comrades"
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More personal and derogatory language. I think you need to have a look in the mirror as to who seems "low IQ" in terms of an inability to have views challenged without coming back with swearing, personal attacks and derogatory digs.
 
Trixster said:
It's crass because you blame the two men for their own fate by saying they ""let their families down"" by showing restraint and it is obnoxious because you are using hindsight to simply assert the justification of killing people while ignoring all the uncertainty of the situation, confusion and rules that governed the use of force at the time.

Claiming that the crowd are not really civilians (a Scara train of thought) just because it was an IRA funeral, well you are mixing up armed membership with political sympathy there dearie which kinda matters.

I brought this historical event into the discussion as an example of trained personnel showing restraint and not shooting someone in the face, something which this ICE agent (the debate) should have done. He faced a far lesser situation and acted very poorly.

And finally, I wasn't being personal I criticised the viewpoint.
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"Are they civilians?" Is not a claim. It is a question.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
A state-funded video game is warning teenagers that they risk being referred to counter-terrorism programme Prevent if they question mass migration, with even researching immigration statistics online portrayed negatively.

More sickening far left damaging propaganda that will be defended by the extremists on here. We are literally living under a regime that is manipulating everything they can.

The Telegraph has the story.
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“ The telegraph” so in other words a work of fiction.
 
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