• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Information not in the public domain… that reminds me of the “WMDs in Iraq” which of course was based on information not in the public Domain.

I would be more happy to accept that PA are in fact terrorist if this government were an honest and impartial broker in the Israeli Palestinian issue… I don’t expect them to be pro Palestine… I don’t even want them to… I just want them to be fair and just.
I agree with those concerns, but I don't think that's what at play here (that said, I believed Blair re; WMDs. I was a teen then. Would I know? Not sure)

PA have displayed they'll go to extremes - attacking a military base is a pretty extreme act.
There don't seem to have been unnecessary restrictions on pro Palestinian protests in general.
Last summers riots aside, there is a good argument that the current government is quite lax and allows for demonstrations - we just happen to be in a period of a lot of them.
 
Seems odd that people are stating that putting paint on a plane is somehow an act of terrorism because that's what it's been called by the clowns in charge. Who gives a fudge? It was called a crime for Rosa Parkes to sit down on a bus, if you were transported back in time would you suddenly agree that it'd deserve jail time?

It gets sillier and sillier, 80 year olds who believe in a reasonable cause (the cause of being anti genocide) are getting labelled terrorists via showing solidarity - So bam, Margaret and Ken are terrorist supporters getting manhandled by police, a surprisingly development in retirement. Was the guy who ploughed a car into innocent onlookers at the Liverpool trophy parade labeled a terrorist? Thank GHod he didn't bring a paint gun and he only ran over a bunch of people.
It's disingenuous to use hindsight in such a way, and exactly why we have laws.
Laws are just philosophy and evolve over time.
Re; your Rosa Parks comparison - see my post including the ANC, IRA, Suffragettes etc. I cover that principle in detail, and the principle of using hindsight in a previous post.

There is an important, and fascinating thought experiment that helps with this principle (and sprung to mind with assassination of the guy in the US a few days ago):
Most people would agree Hitler was incredibly evil.
Most people would agree the world would have been better without Hitler.
Few people mourn Hitler's death.

The question - at what point do you consider killing Hitler to be justified?

(On that note, there is play on in London at the which raises the question "what would have happened if Hitlers mum had let Freud work with him as a child". Sadly I don't have time to get down to see it.)
 
Well, we'll see if it stands up to legal challenge. I understand that incursions into military bases must be viewed differently, but the terrorism designation is a crack you don't want to wedge open. It will not stop there.
Fully agree.And as I highlighted in a previous post, there is a mechanism akin to a Judicial Review available to PA to reconsider the proscription. They should avail themselves of it - prove they don't meet the benchmark and that the political decision was incorrect....if it was.

I don't believe for a second that the proscription was based purely upon the attack on a military base - that would be political suicide. Probably enough to bring down the PM.
If I'm wrong and PA are shown at judicial level not to be terrorists, then big change is needed. It would be huge. They current Govt are a mixed bag - but I doubt they are that incompetent.
 
so over 100k people turned up for a march for conspiracy theories and racism

we are fudged

massively troubling rhetoric, it was a white nationalist rally, all that was missing was white hoods and burning crosses

 
Last edited:
so over 100k people turned up for a march for conspiracy theories and racism

we are fudged

massively troubling rhetoric, it was a white nationalist rally, all that was missing was white hoods and burning crosses

 
Doesn't feel like some of us are welcome in our own country.
They're not. But they were born here, so have the same rights we do.

That answer is obviously a slight quip, but also serious. Racists are not welcome in my country. We could choose to remove citizenship for it (but thankfully thought crime isn't a crime!) - ironically, if that happened, they'd probably "come over here and try to change our culture".

Racists have always been around, and always will be.
But more importantly, people feeling hard done by will always be led into simplistic rhetoric. That doesn't make someone like you less welcome (I won't comment on your feelings; I can't relate. Although I did live in Luton for a while - left literally a day before the first EDL march). These movements do go away.

What comes next?
I only see two options:
- Events that move to the modern equivalent of Cable Street.
- The Govt doing a combination of two things.
A. Changing arrangements for Asylum. Seekers whereby they are not allowed into the community until Asylum is granted & investing to process a higher volume of claims.
B. Taxes targeted at the ultra wealthy.

A good government would do these in tandem in the budget. It would kill Farage's narrative and show direct action towards fair redistribution of well. The results from increased Asylum apps would also show how little (or how much - maybe we're wrong!) impact "the boats" have.

I think it's without that we're fudged.

Big hugs.
 
so over 100k people turned up for a march for conspiracy theories and racism

we are fudged

massively troubling rhetoric, it was a white nationalist rally, all that was missing was white hoods and burning crosses


Yaxley-Lennon looked coked out of his head when he was on the stage.

Imagine being that full of hate. What a way to go through life.
 
Imagine if we could have caught everyone at that event in an elaborate childcatcher trap. And deported them all straight off on a one-way slow boat to Falkland. Imagine how nice the country would be after that little bit of hygiene.
 
Has everyone read Musks words in that thread?

Gawd knows who he thinks he is and what's his angle into any UK issues?
Not sure what he was clucking on tonight but it weren't MDMA.
 
Has everyone read Musks words in that thread?

Gawd knows who he thinks he is and what's his angle into any UK issues?
Not sure what he was clucking on tonight but it weren't MDMA.

Seemed like an attempt at subversion to me.

It’s all about twitter, Facebook tried the same brick, get close to politicians so you can continue your business undisturbed by taxes or regulation after you help them to power.
 
There was easily more than 100k there. At least 250k. Biggest far right demo ever in the UK. We can hope they run out of steam soon.

Does anyone agree that they are single issue movement though, as in "we hate Muslims" and "The rest aren't a priority for now"?
 
There was easily more than 100k there. At least 250k. Biggest far right demo ever in the UK. We can hope they run out of steam soon.

Does anyone agree that they are single issue movement though, as in "we hate Muslims" and "The rest aren't a priority for now"?
The issues are likely wide-ranging and given the number of people in attendance will range from the issues of importance to the "ring leaders" to hangers on that are there because they are just generally pee'd off with anything and everything.

For example, the latest intelligence from MI5 on far right terrorist operations in the UK states that the motivations of far right extremists in the UK are "complex, shifting and sometimes overlapping grievance narratives".

MI5 warn that the ideology motovations vary from individual to individual and therefore must be dealt with on a case by case basis.

They also warn that ideology shouldn't be confused with intent.


However MI5 have settled on some key main themes that can be used to analyse and investigate extreme right wing threats. They also state that it is important to differentiate between "extreme right wing" views that pose a threat to UK societal stability and national security and legitimately held "right wing" views, e.g. social or religious conservatism. The key themes they identify in defining the extreme right wing threat are:
- White supremacy
- White nationalism
- Cultural nationalism

For example, moving aside from MI5 analysis, my own experience is that extreme right wing groups in the UK (and the US) identify strongly with "anglo saxon", "celtic" and "nordic" definitions of ethnicity (which is even narrower than the broader definition of "white" or caucasian). For example, romani and other slavic or southern and eastern european groups can often be a target of far right extremism.

But I doubt everyone or even most people at the march were as extreme in their ideology as that described. It is likely to be a complex picture.
 
Back