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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

glasgowspur said:
That never occurred to me :(
there's five minutes you'll never get back.
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That's OK. I have no clue about Scottish politics so that was a 5-minute insight into the lay of the land up there.
I did notice independence has a small lead in the polls 55/45 now . Is that a temporary bump or a trend, do you think?
 
Diamond Lights said:
Our politcal system is broken with FPTP system.
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I'm never sure about that. Better to alternate the two parties that 40% of the population votes for, than have the SNP and Lib Dems making the big decisions. I think both the big parties are a bit crap/going through talent deficits at the moment, but I'm not sure that's to do with those structures.

There's a lot else I would fix first. A ban on private sector lobbying, an overhaul of local government, the HoL, West Lothian etc.
 
Rorschach said:
That's OK. I have no clue about Scottish politics so that was a 5-minute insight into the lay of the land up there.
I did notice independence has a small lead in the polls 55/45 now . Is that a temporary bump or a trend, do you think?
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It's a dodgy poll, the first in i think over the last 18 months that has shown any positive for independence. If anything there has been a slow drift away from it.
Commissioned by STV, an independence cheerleader, so i take it with a bigger pinch of salt than i do for any poll.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I'm never sure about that. Better to alternate the two parties that 40% of the population votes for, than have the SNP and Lib Dems making the big decisions. I think both the big parties are a bit crap/going through talent deficits at the moment, but I'm not sure that's to do with those structures.

There's a lot else I would fix first. A ban on private sector lobbying, an overhaul of local government, the HoL, West Lothian etc.
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Except that it is unlikely that Labour will win power again now that the SNP pick up most of the left wing votes in Scotland. So under the FPTP system it's either a Tory government or a hung one. In addition, if you live in a safe seat and do not support the main party represented by that seat you lose your democratic voice.
 
Robspur12 said:
I can't say that you are racist as I don't know you. But this post paints a picture that immigrants are solely responsible for the issues you describe. But it seems to me that every thing you ascribe to an immigrant could equally be ascribed to a native. There are definitely issues around some immigrant communities and integration, but there are often a complex combination of factors at play whereas the solutions appear simple to your average farage supporting person.

Now you can criticise the likes of me for pointing this out, you probably think I am being politically correct, but I find the tone of the post cheap and nasty. It may well represent the views of many natives (I don't think it does the majority) but I will still exercise my right to call it out.

Let me explain to you about my family circumstances. My dad was born into poverty in a foreign country. He wanted to train as a doctor in the 60s but his family were too poor to afford it. He left school at 15 (luckily his dad believed in education otherwise it would have been earlier like many of his peers) then worked as a Labourer on a building site to bring in money to support his sister through school and provide for his family. He still wanted a better life so he applied to train as a nurse in the UK; he borrowed and saved money and came to England with just a suitcase to his name. He knew no one and everyone looked different to him, he'd never even eaten English food and the racism when he arrived in 1969? You can't even imagine. Completed his training then worked like a dog to not only save for a house here but also to send back money to continue supporting his folks. In the 80s the interest rates rose to 15% which meant his mortgage repayments suddenly shot up. Did he complain? No, he got on with it; worked shifts from 7am-9pm to keep the roof over our heads. He missed my sister and I growing up because he was always workin.
There are plenty of examples like him in the immigrant community.

My dad didn't look around him and think the country owed him a council house, or a job. He worked to get both his own home and moved around to get better jobs. When he was made redundant in the 90s because his hospital closed he went back to college and studied so he could get a community nursing job. In all that time he paid all his taxes too no cash in hand work.

He left his mum, dad and sister in his home country thousands of miles away and to this day despite being 75 years old he still is paying for his 94 year old mum to be looked after 24 hours a day by carers.

So it's amazing what you can do if you don't sit around blaming other people or believe that the country owes you a living or a house. I can see why lots of people are looking for others to blame for their predicament but I rather suspect if they didn't have the immigrants they would just find another spacegoat. I tell you what the farage supporting people might not like what I have to say but I couldn't care less, I prefer a country made up of people like my dad than entitled fudgewits calling themselves British looking around for spacegoats.
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My mother had Italian heritage, her father immigrated her from Italy turn of the previous century. Always worked as well. So yeah we are heroes descended from heroes blah blah.

I know of so many people who have worked all their life and whose children can not not only get on the property ladder can't afford to rent yet see people just turned up in the country been given housing.

Yes Maggie sold a load off and it was wrong but to pretend that the is no issue is frankly mental. People always give the case study about their own families as if it is somehow relevant. Then wonder why the is such apathy with current politics. I honestly feel I have more in common with the average working class voter, though to lots of lazy people let's just call us all racists.

On other political issues I'm seriously considering actually joining the Labour Party and not just voting for them. Then I read Sir Kier wants to ban private health care?? So me paying for private health care and not be a burden on the health service is a problem? Not sure what is wrong with the guy.
 
Robspur12 said:
Except that it is unlikely that Labour will win power again now that the SNP pick up most of the left wing votes in Scotland. So under the FPTP system it's either a Tory government or a hung one. In addition, if you live in a safe seat and do not support the main party represented by that seat you lose your democratic voice.
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That's only the situation at the moment, particularly because Labour pivoted metropolitan on Brexit and immigration, and lost their core vote. Given time, that group will see Tories look after their interests even less, and Labour will be able to build a new coalition of voters. If Labour find the right leader and right policies, they could easily have another 3-4 term stint.

The second point is just a 'not everyone can have their way' reality. If you live in a rich leafy suburb, you know it will always vote Tory. If you live in a metropolitan city centre, you know it will always vote Labour. But that's just because that's what the majority of your area wants to happen. It's not disenfranchisement, it's just democracy at work.
 
The country needs to introduce preferential voting. At present, in many seats the winning candidate does not have the support of an absolute majority of the electorate.
 
Gutter Boy said:
That's only the situation at the moment, particularly because Labour pivoted metropolitan on Brexit and immigration, and lost their core vote. Given time, that group will see Tories look after their interests even less, and Labour will be able to build a new coalition of voters. If Labour find the right leader and right policies, they could easily have another 3-4 term stint.

The second point is just a 'not everyone can have their way' reality. If you live in a rich leafy suburb, you know it will always vote Tory. If you live in a metropolitan city centre, you know it will always vote Labour. But that's just because that's what the majority of your area wants to happen. It's not disenfranchisement, it's just democracy at work.
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That's the issue though, it's not always the majority. With FPTP, you'd need all the other parties to agree an electoral pact where only one of them stands against the incumbent. And then hope that the electorate vote for that one, even if not their usual party. It's not going to happen in enough areas for it to make any discernible difference to the overall results of a general election.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
The country needs to introduce preferential voting. At present, in many seats the winning candidate does not have the support of an absolute majority of the electorate.
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You never will either, unless you only have two candidates and a 100% turnout. It's a warped concept of democracy - it's always been about popular, not adding together all the losers' votes.

Preferential voting also creates perverse incentives - i.e. the Tories would actually do better if UKIP were strong, so you might end up with parties propping up rivals as gameplaying tactics.

Glenda's Legs said:
That's the issue though, it's not always the majority. With FPTP, you'd need all the other parties to agree an electoral pact where only one of them stands against the incumbent. And then hope that the electorate vote for that one, even if not their usual party. It's not going to happen in enough areas for it to make any discernible difference to the overall results of a general election.
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Or just a decent candidate that builds a presence in their area and then inspires people to vote for them. Pursued people by hope and a positive agenda, not fear and plotting.
 
I think a better voting system than FPTP, would lead to a higher turn out in elections. Whether that is a good thing or not is debatable but it would certainly be more democratic.
 
Robspur12 said:
I think a better voting system than FPTP, would lead to a higher turn out in elections. Whether that is a good thing or not is debatable but it would certainly be more democratic.
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It is certainly a good thing. FPTP has numerous flaws but mostly it is unrepresentative of the actual vote and suppresses political diversity, compromise and collaboration.
 
Robspur12 said:
I think a better voting system than FPTP, would lead to a higher turn out in elections. Whether that is a good thing or not is debatable but it would certainly be more democratic.
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We're pretty much dead on the international average (69%, average is 71%).
 
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