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Pakistani Fiddlers

DubaiSpur said:
Race shouldn't matter. Yet it somehow does.

But who those people are has very little to do with whether they're pakistani, muslim, white or catholic.

These men are South Asians. As, apparently, are the majority of 'street' groomers in the north.

But the priests who abused choirboys were white. As are the majority of offenders arrested for pedophilia-related offenses.

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I'm pretty sure that statistically most Catholics are white (ish) and any religion that persuades its ministers that sex is off the menu (married to GHod?) is going to have a problem when allowing the young (choir) people to be left alone in the care of men with large amounts of testosterone and pent up sexual energy/tension. As far as I know thats not the same problem as a religion that allows men to believe that they can dictate the entire behaviour and lifestyle of its womenfolk (their dresscode as far as I know wasn't exactly picked out of catalogues by the women born into Muslim societies) and who see non muslims as being fair game for abuse, as doing that to their own would be pious hypocracy.

If people dont think that this is a racial/religious problem, then they are walking around with a bag over their head.

White and Christian based societies have paedos because they are aberrant individuals with upbringing/genetic mental defects that don't allow them to recognise the damage they are doing by their behaviour. I would be hard pushed to remember a scenario where similar behaviour was exhibited by a geographically social group of westerners suddenly decided to indulge in similar behaviour, because it is not routinely thought of as acceptable.
 
mick cooper said:
I'm pretty sure that statistically most Catholics are white (ish) and any religion that persuades its ministers that sex is off the menu (married to GHod?) is going to have a problem when allowing the young (choir) people to be left alone in the care of men with large amounts of testosterone and pent up sexual energy/tension. As far as I know thats not the same problem as a religion that allows men to believe that they can dictate the entire behaviour and lifestyle of its womenfolk (their dresscode as far as I know wasn't exactly picked out of catalogues by the women born into Muslim societies) and who see non muslims as being fair game for abuse, as doing that to their own would be pious hypocracy.

If people dont think that this is a racial/religious problem, then they are walking around with a bag over their head.

White and Christian based societies have paedos because they are aberrant individuals with upbringing/genetic mental defects that don't allow them to recognise the damage they are doing by their behaviour. I would be hard pushed to remember a scenario where similar behaviour was exhibited by a geographically social group of westerners suddenly decided to indulge in similar behaviour, because it is not routinely thought of as acceptable.
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No actually Mick, Islam is not a religion which allows men to believe that they can dictate the entire behaviour of their women folk. And how in earth is a religion which has pre-marital sex completely off the table for everyone encouraging Muslims to see non-Muslims as fair game?

White and Christian based societies have committed far worse atrocities than this in their past, because it widely believed to be acceptable. Are you all descended/still from people with mental disorders?
 
I honestly don't know, I'm by no means an expert on the matter. I remember this coming up years ago between Clarky and someone else and then Arabspur? I think explained it. Might be worth asking him to do it again. Though I haven't seen him for a while, has he been banned after the avatar thing?
 
Hootnow said:
No actually Mick, Islam is not a religion which allows men to believe that they can dictate the entire behaviour of their women folk. And how in earth is a religion which has pre-marital sex completely off the table for everyone encouraging Muslims to see non-Muslims as fair game?

White and Christian based societies have committed far worse atrocities than this in their past, because it widely believed to be acceptable. Are you all descended/still from people with mental disorders?
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Really, so why do they have to wear clothing that covers them from head to foot?

Why do the taliban (who I accept are not wholly representative of the religion) believe that...............well everything about the way they treat their women, and don't they claim that they are the purest practitioners of the faith?

I don't seek to make myself out to be an expert, I only know what I have read.

If it helps by the way, I am as equally disdainful of all religions, I am no more pro or anti Islam than I am of Christianity.

I'm interested to know about white/christian based social groups who committed worse atrocities in the past. The only examples (I can think of) of group behaviour are nutty groups of dingdongheads following sect leaders in the US, who start adopting polygamous behaviour where the lines of which females are adult enough, become blurred.

As someone pointed out, getting barely pubescent girls from socially deprived backgrounds of their faces on alcohol and drugs is pretty reprehensible behaviour, to specifically target an ethnic group different from your own is indicative of a group concept that its acceptable to do so, whilst not to your own. So I'd see this as a race/religion based crime.

I do NOT believe that Muslim males believe that this is acceptable, nor do I assume that all Roman Catholic priests to be pederasts, I just believe that the religious teachings of those faiths are more likely, for differing reasons to allow those types of behaviour to become more likely.
 
Hootnow said:
No actually Mick, Islam is not a religion which allows men to believe that they can dictate the entire behaviour of their women folk. And how in earth is a religion which has pre-marital sex completely off the table for everyone encouraging Muslims to see non-Muslims as fair game?

White and Christian based societies have committed far worse atrocities than this in their past, because it widely believed to be acceptable. Are you all descended/still from people with mental disorders?
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Delving into the dustbin of history won't progress this issue, lets face it, there are people from all walks of life who view others as infidels for not following their religion or way of thinking, or not being of the same class for example. The issue at hand here is that the high percentage ratio (for the method in which it was executed) when compared to other communities/races etc indicates that there is an issue in the Pakistani community that needs addressing.

Why is it acceptable to sweep things under the carpet?

Why is it viewed as racisim to legitimately (based on clear patterns and statistics) suggest that there is an issue in a community. It has been said that white males ae the majority offenders in the case of online grooming and all the terrible things that happens from that, but that Pakistani for street grooming rape and prostitution/drugging of underage girls which is equally horrific. Why does the Pakistani community (based on the politically correct stance I have witnessed on television this morning) appear to stick their heads in the sand, and say no there is no problem here.

It is this refusal to accept that there may be a widepread problem specific to the community may have lead to heated exchanges. Clear denial, dis functional, we all want to wipe out this kind of crime but can't unless those with some balls stand up and say that there is a problem that needs addressing.
 
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As an aside, the show this morning which was presented by Nick Campbell (hate posting that name), had a contributor who said that the White community has a problem to deal with. The problem was that white people are too worried about being accused of racisim, therefore blame should be apportioned for that, and also that in combination with white girls being more likely to be out on the street at 2am were contributing factors.

Well let me say, if somebody walks around at 2am, and the police are worried about being called racist, that is not the fault of the victim whatsoever.

Somebody else had the balls to say it on the show and was repeatedly shouted down by this annoying fudge (that is the only way to describe him as he simply would not let other views contrary to his be heard) and i'm glad there was some common sense in the crowd, the crowd was weighted in favour of this not being a racially motivated issue judging by what received a round of applause, and judging by the apparant make up of the crowd it was hand picked to sail the politically correct ship.

I don't neccesarily believe the issue is clear cut, it is multi faceted, whilst I do believe white girls were targeted for the belief that they are 'easy pray' and racial views and stereo types may have led to this being the case, it is not comparable in the sense of stephen lawrence being murdered for example which appears as a clear cut racist killing.

Had the 'Pakistani fiddlers' been targetting white girls simply to 'punish' them based on their race/beliefs for example, then that would be as clear cut as it gets, but that appears not the case here, however there are racially motivated elements to what they did.
 
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mick cooper said:
Really, so why do they have to wear clothing that covers them from head to foot?

Why do the taliban (who I accept are not wholly representative of the religion) believe that...............well everything about the way they treat their women, and don't they claim that they are the purest practitioners of the faith?

I don't seek to make myself out to be an expert, I only know what I have read.

If it helps by the way, I am as equally disdainful of all religions, I am no more pro or anti Islam than I am of Christianity.

I'm interested to know about white/christian based social groups who committed worse atrocities in the past. The only examples (I can think of) of group behaviour are nutty groups of dingdongheads following sect leaders in the US, who start adopting polygamous behaviour where the lines of which females are adult enough, become blurred.

As someone pointed out, getting barely pubescent girls from socially deprived backgrounds of their faces on alcohol and drugs is pretty reprehensible behaviour, to specifically target an ethnic group different from your own is indicative of a group concept that its acceptable to do so, whilst not to your own. So I'd see this as a race/religion based crime.

I do NOT believe that Muslim males believe that this is acceptable, nor do I assume that all Roman Catholic priests to be pederasts, I just believe that the religious teachings of those faiths are more likely, for differing reasons to allow those types of behaviour to become more likely.
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Why do Sikh and Hindu men have to wear turbans? Does that mean that they are dictated to? Have you ever considered that some women may actually want to wear the hijab? Perhaps some women don't want to be judged solely by their looks and how curvy they are? The whole concept of it has been severely warped by muslims and non-muslims alike. It is meant to be a way for women to be respected, so that the first thing that men think is not I wonder how she'd be in the sack but to treat her as a human and an equal. And it states very clearly that it is a choice of the woman's and not her parents' or husband's responsibility to enforce it. Unfortunately, its moved well away from this now.

The Taliban are considered extreme even by the extreme wing of Islam. So extreme so as to have basically moved away from the religion. What they practice is not Islam. It is their tribal culture. They used to go around beating men for not growing beards. Can you find me the bit of Islam which states you have to do this? They used to stop girls going to school even though the quran clearly states that you are to educate your daughters as you educate your sons.

How long have you got Mick?

http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion

If you can't be bothered to read through all that (and I wouldn't blame you, its pretty long and I'm sure we're are all entering matchday mode already!) the church was really quite involved in the Rwandan genocide for example. Quite an atrocity I'm sure you'll agree. And further back, European christians have had quite a penchant for attacking and exterminating jews.
And there are many many more.

Of course its reprehensible behaviour. And of course there is a cultural/racial aspect to this. But to attempt to fob this off as a religious thing is quite strange considering that Islam prohibits drugs, alcohol and pre-marital sex.
 
THFC said:
Delving into the dustbin of history won't progress this issue, lets face it, there are people from all walks of life who view others as infidels for not following their religion or way of thinking, or not being of the same class for example. The issue at hand here is that the high percentage ratio (for the method in which it was executed) when compared to other communities/races etc indicates that there is an issue in the Pakistani community that needs addressing.

Why is it acceptable to sweep things under the carpet?

Why is it viewed as racisim to legitimately (based on clear patterns and statistics) suggest that there is an issue in a community. It has been said that white males ae the majority offenders in the case of online grooming and all the terrible things that happens from that, but that Pakistani for street grooming rape and prostitution/drugging of underage girls which is equally horrific. Why does the Pakistani community (based on the politically correct stance I have witnessed on television this morning) appear to stick their heads in the sand, and say no there is no problem here.

It is this refusal to accept that there may be a widepread problem specific to the community may have lead to heated exchanges. Clear denial, dis functional, we all want to wipe out this kind of crime but can't unless those with some balls stand up and say that there is a problem that needs addressing.
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I don't know why you're asking me, I think that there is a cultural/racial aspect to this. And I think it needs to be addressed by members of both the Pakistani community and British society as a whole.

And I have no intention of turning this into an Islam vs. Christianity thing, I think its fair to say that both have been pretty violent throughout their history. I just find it strange that some people are seeking to blame this on the tenants of Islamic faith when actually drugs, alcohol, rape and pre-marital sex, rape or not, are all haram in the religion.
 
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Hootnow said:
Why do Sikh and Hindu men have to wear turbans? Does that mean that they are dictated to? Have you ever considered that some women may actually want to wear the hijab? Perhaps some women don't want to be judged solely by their looks and how curvy they are? The whole concept of it has been severely warped by muslims and non-muslims alike. It is meant to be a way for women to be respected, so that the first thing that men think is not I wonder how she'd be in the sack but to treat her as a human and an equal. And it states very clearly that it is a choice of the woman's and not her parents' or husband's responsibility to enforce it. Unfortunately, its moved well away from this now.

The Taliban are considered extreme even by the extreme wing of Islam. So extreme so as to have basically moved away from the religion. What they practice is not Islam. It is their tribal culture. They used to go around beating men for not growing beards. Can you find me the bit of Islam which states you have to do this? They used to stop girls going to school even though the quran clearly states that you are to educate your daughters as you educate your sons.

How long have you got Mick?

http://notachristian.org/christianatrocities.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion

If you can't be bothered to read through all that (and I wouldn't blame you, its pretty long and I'm sure we're are all entering matchday mode already!) the church was really quite involved in the Rwandan genocide for example. Quite an atrocity I'm sure you'll agree. And further back, European christians have had quite a penchant for attacking and exterminating jews.
And there are many many more.

Of course its reprehensible behaviour. And of course there is a cultural/racial aspect to this. But to attempt to fob this off as a religious thing is quite strange considering that Islam prohibits drugs, alcohol and pre-marital sex.
Click to expand...

fudge me, if you just want examples of Christians behaving badly, then there are innumerable examples - but western society has grown upo and realised that its not a good way to conduct your life, keep to the point.
I asked where social groups of westerners would get to gether and decide it was suitable to sexually abuse pubescent girls in a similar manner. In my belief it would never happen, because our religions and moral code wouldn't allow it.

But remember what I said, this isn't me taking a pop at Islam, I'm prepared to do it where necessary for any religion whose basic tenets (not tenants) are likely to cause aberrant behaviour.

The turban thing was a waste of time - because my point was based around the male dominated thinking that runs core to Islam.
 
mick cooper said:
fudge me, if you just want examples of Christians behaving badly, then there are innumerable examples - but western society has grown upo and realised that its not a good way to conduct your life, keep to the point.
I asked where social groups of westerners would get to gether and decide it was suitable to sexually abuse pubescent girls in a similar manner. In my belief it would never happen, because our religions and moral code wouldn't allow it.

But remember what I said, this isn't me taking a pop at Islam, I'm prepared to do it where necessary for any religion whose basic tenets (not tenants) are likely to cause aberrant behaviour.

The turban thing was a waste of time - because my point was based around the male dominated thinking that runs core to Islam.
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You were the one who brought up white/christian based societies. Though reading back now, I see you did eventually narrow it down to these societies housing paedophiles so I apologise on missing that first time. Some South Africans and Zimbabweans have an ahem interesting view regarding young girls and HIV but we'll leave this line of argument.

Your response to me saying that Islam (the religion and not Muslims, its current adherents) does not seek to control every aspect of their womens' lives was to ask why they are forced to cover themselves from head to toe. The thing that westerners seem to get most upset about is that they cover their hair. So I asked what you thought of the turban situation for Sikhs?

Anyway, I'm out. We've avoided arguments for a long time and been pleasant towards each other and I feel like ere dangerously close to descending back to what we were like before. Plus, glory glory has gotten to the stage it always does in these kinds of threads where we all end up denouncing everyone else as backward and patting ourselves on the backs for being so advanced.

Enjoy the discussion.
 
Kingdawson said:
Why does race even matter? When catholic priest #7577899 is caught fondling yet another young kid is the question about what race the victim is ever asked? No because its irrelevant. The fact is rapists and peodos should all be shot irrespective of what race their victim was.
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I am in 100% agreement.
 
If Muhammad is a fundamental part of Islam, could it be argued that this doesn't exactly send a positive message about underage girls to Muslims?
 
southstand1882 said:
If Muhammad is a fundamental part of Islam, could it be argued that this doesn't exactly send a positive message about underage girls to Muslims?
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Of course. But many muslims will simply use the "it was a different time" approach. Yeah exactly, a time when religion might actually have been relevant.
 
Leeds Spur said:
Anyone actually gonna call a spade a spade?

90%+ of Internet grooming is committed by white middle aged men.

90%+ of on street grooming is committed by Pakistani men.

Why?

Well my theiry is because they're all in arranged marriages and cannot divorce or have affairs for fear of dishonouring their families. They use prostitutes heavily, ( a friend runs and escort agency, the majority of punters are Pakistani men) now they see this as an easy way to get sex by getting 12 year old girls tinkled and fudging them.

Of course all Pakistani men aren't peadophiles!!! Just like all Black men don't commit street muggings and all rapists aren't white. But until we cut the PC gonad*s and actually admit there is an issue in our northern towns and cities this will continue.
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Are their figures for internet usage among Pakistani men ?
 
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