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OT: What next for Harry?

Genuinely I have/had no issue with him wanting the job

Genuinely I thought he was made for the job

Genuinely I would have been very accepting had he got it, wished him well and everything

However, this
the england job was something he wanted, IMO he dropped the ball on that one. He took his eyes of the prize and stiood on the street corner waiting for a pick up while we were doing badly....the correlation was too much. it clearly played a part

Is 100% unforgivable. Its dereliction of duty, negligence - he completely left us for dead - and there are no excuses.
 
so whats he supposed to do about cover when he isnt given proper money to get them? we just dont have the people. He cant get them ou of thin air

Perhaps he could've done better than asking for Carlos Tevez? Research perhaps? Scouting? Committed to staying a while? who's going to spend 20 million on a striker for a manager who has patently said they will be off if the next big thing comes through? Unless that striker is a young versatile asset/talent?
 
Yes they did.
In fact that was PRECISELY the crux of it. And this is where you get even angrier at something I'm about to express, but hey, here we are, and hopefully we can DISCUSS it and DISAGREE with some decency.
Harry, IMO, did nothing to distance himself from the England job. He did nothing to insulate himself from the cacophony around him. Instead he flat out denied it had any influence on the payers at all, when his own lieutenants disagreed with him on that score!
Injuries...they happen. He had no worse a run of injuries than Wenger. And he he had (arguably) a more experienced squad. One of his big tickets was squad rotation, something he did very well in the CL qualification year (with players such as Gudjohnsen and Kranjcar being elevated to vital roles). He shifted Pienaar when he could've been a very very important squad rotated player, he froze Kranjcar out, he was absolutely unable to get Pav to function and he wore Parker into the ground when there were options. Further, compared to even earlier in the same season, his tactical nous when going to, say, the Emirates was absolutely 100% lacking. We hammere3d Newcash the week before 5-0, played amazing football with 4-4-2 but were playing a side shorn of Tiote and Cabaye who still came to ours 4-4-2 and who's manager, Pardew, subsequently admitted was a massive error on HIS part. I know I go on about the emirates, but it was a clear CLEAR indication that he was not at the races. We found ourselves 2-0 up despite being outplayed beyond the first 10 minutes, Harry said himself afterwards that he saw us getting overrun and felt perhaps he should make a change, but he didn't. Ledders was hurting that day and we did nothing to protect him! Instead, we went 4-3-3 second-half!!!!

I undertand there will be dips, but not for two and a half months. And don't forget the previous season's two and a half month dip either.

Do I recognize there were great moments? of course! Said so many times. But it's churlish to think that anyone who criticized Harry Redknapp didn't consider those aspects, when there are literally thousands of written words detailing concerns over those precise elements mate...

have to return home. i'm definately responding to this, i dont agree with a few comments here
 
Genuinely I have/had no issue with him wanting the job

Genuinely I thought he was made for the job

Genuinely I would have been very accepting had he got it, wished him well and everything

However, this


Is 100% unforgivable. Its dereliction of duty, negligence - he completely left us for dead - and there are no excuses.

=D>

I wish him luck in the future, I really do, but the above is a truth which cannot be denied.
 
hahahaaa, nooo way...am not having this LOL......you are talking about TWO guys...dear lord..base a whole population on a sample set of 2 (sorry mick, MK..love your stance on this topic to bits)

I can only say what I think.

I think there were many more than a couple that argued from the basis "this is as good as it gets".

None could really form an argument as to how Harry could take us further (based upon his 4 years in charge) and plenty made excuses as to how better than 4th was unrealistic.
 
Perhaps he could've done better than asking for Carlos Tevez? Research perhaps? Scouting? Committed to staying a while? who's going to spend 20 million on a striker for a manager who has patently said they will be off if the next big thing comes through? Unless that striker is a young versatile asset/talent?

Have you got a spy somewhere in Harry / levy's offices?

you know for a fact that it was Tevez or bust. that harry didnt do research, and that harry wouldnt commit after he lost his last chance on england.

give me strength, this is baseless but it comes across like its factual...its probably true but how can you be so sure thats what happened. he even mentioned on match of the day he wanted Dembele. who esle did he look at
#
how do you know the tevez quip wasnt a cheeky one liner?

this is too much
 
so whats he supposed to do about cover when he isnt given proper money to get them? we just dont have the people. He cant get them ou of thin air

im happy to go over old ground here as for once this seems to be a decent debate. . . .

Pienaar, Corluka and Krancjar off the top of my head were players that were massively under used in the season just gone and were all available to use or not use at the managers discretion.

Corluka as cover for Walker, who fatigued dramatically the second half of the season

Pienaar as cover for Lennon and the central positions - Lennon get's injured, Redknapp can't settle on a consistent 'fix' while he is absent so alternates between shunting VdV out of his natural position and using Bale/Modric out of position also - resulting in a loss of momentum and form and lost points.

Krancjar as cover on the left or behind the striker

all 3 would have been important players in the second half of the season and all three were available to the manager but he either neglected to use them or sent them out on loan - he left himself dangerously short of cover and he is the one that should shoulder the blame, saying he wasn't backed in the market does not cut it at all in this instance
 
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I can only say what I think.

I think there were many more than a couple that argued from the basis "this is as good as it gets".

None could really form an argument as to how Harry could take us further (based upon his 4 years in charge) and plenty made excuses as to how better than 4th was unrealistic.

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my argument is that we werew a form's way away from challenging for the league and that with better players or a squad to maintain whatever system he chose could have improved our chances. not to mention that he has played with 3 different systems with us succesfully..who is to say that this man wouldnt have found a way to accomodate cazorla if we managed to go for him this summer into a beast of a team
 
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my argument is that we werew a form's way away from challenging for the league and that with better players or a squad to maintain whatever system he chose could have improved our chances. not to mention that he has played with 3 different systems with us succesfully..who is to say that this man wouldnt have found a way to accomodate cazorla if we managed to go for him this summer into a beast of a team

I thin Steff and Billy already touch on it. And it goes back to my insistence on the 4 years of his tenure adding context.

Whether you believe Levy made things difficult for him or not that is plenty of time to have an established team and as importantly established alternatives (in play and personel).

He didnt. That is a failure on his part.
 
Y
Harry, IMO, did nothing to distance himself from the England job. He did nothing to insulate himself from the cacophony around him. Instead he flat out denied it had any influence on the payers at all, when his own lieutenants disagreed with him on that score!

Okay starting here. I am not sure why Harry should have distanced himself from the Job of his dreams. The whole world and their dog knew he wanted that job. He's a professional with aspirations. There is nothing wrong with wanting something and going for it. As long as you are prepared to deal with the consequences and fall out. Harry was prepared for both.

Now you say he flat out denied that it had any influence? what did you expect him to say? to come out there and say it ruined our season? Are you serious? EVERYONE knew it disrupted our season, there isnt any need for harry to go stoking the flames there. If honesty is trait that's against Harry then you need to look to our current manager Allegedly lieing on a few front

N.B speaking of which Milo is going to chew your ass in a bit cause you insinuated Harry to be a fibber

Injuries...they happen. He had no worse a run of injuries than Wenger. And he he had (arguably) a more experienced squad. One of his big tickets was squad rotation, something he did very well in the CL qualification year (with players such as Gudjohnsen and Kranjcar being elevated to vital roles).

He had to move his players around cause the CL was a once in a life time experience. He had to use the squad more and he did it well.

Again if you're going to sit there and type away saying that Injuries doesnt even factor into the plus column for him then i dont want to hear anything you have to say about players getting injured for AVB (kaboul) or people getting sold or him not getting his players. These things happen..deal with it AVB . after all wenger sold all his players and replaced them with significantly less..no? AVB better start winning some games , cant be relying on injuries and lack of personell as reasons..nah nah nah...that kind of thing doesnt wash around here apparently

on a serious note..i do agree...injuries are part of the job...but you nicely mention that for AVB. why?

He shifted Pienaar when he could've been a very very important squad rotated player,

i did find this odd when he let pienaar go, but you know what....i ws okay with cause i 'thought' Niko would get more games and he did. Niko being IMO the better player. Pienaar on the other hand seemed to be the king of average and mediocrity. no idea what happened to him while he was here....he played enough games for us to show us that he could perform when called upon and pienaar didnt play well. put it mildly he appeared to be a guy that needs the team to function through him for his values to become apparent.

He wasnt going to get that here so we moved him. It was an odd one but we did it and IMO we did it for a player that was better coming off the bench in Niko

Its funny though after all Pienaars average performances that him not being here is now A BIG DEAL when he struts his stuff in a system that suits him.

he froze Kranjcar out,

This one IS one of the things that irks me abit, people are talking about this now. but why werent people suggesting us to play Niko when we were flying ...eh? who are you going to drop to play Niko ...regularly? who? bale? no...Lennon? no////VDV? no.....modric ? no...and i am telling you...no one was complaining here when we were winning...and when we were losing no one wanted our best players dropped. Human being are very similar and predictable in that they will yell murder from far away when things dont go their way. when things are on course no one complains.......hehe..the JOKER was right

he was absolutely unable to get Pav to function

Oh MY GOOOOOOD!!! this bit needs challenging till Jesus returns....No one could get Pav to function. and that was down to key fundamental skills the man was missing. added to that the system didnt suit him..he would have been better to play to a 2 man strike force (in the premiership anyway)...but for that you would have to drop someone. again i ask you ..who are you dropping

and he wore Parker into the ground when there were options.

who were the options? sandro and thudd were injured. Is livermore the great hope? he was the guy that would seamlessly replace parker who was our player of the season...and therefore integral to our great run AND also needed to get us out of the bad run? who were the options pray tell.
Its a shame that parker got injured but you make it sound like that scene in TRUE GRIT when John Wayne is flogging Blackie up the hill till he dies (there is a joke there somewhere but i keep getting outted as a racist so i'll leave that alone)

Further, compared to even earlier in the same season, his tactical nous when going to, say, the Emirates was absolutely 100% lacking. We hammere3d Newcash the week before 5-0, played amazing football with 4-4-2 but were playing a side shorn of Tiote and Cabaye who still came to ours 4-4-2 and who's manager, Pardew, subsequently admitted was a massive error on HIS part.

earlier in the same season sounds like it was back during the good run...it was only like a few weeks prior. but definately bring up his single worst game for us to prove that his tactical nous is lacking. Just say the word and i'll name TEN GAMES where his tactics and moves won us games. i'm THAT confident that people will reach for every morsel they can find to prove that he was a stupid tactician ..and morsels they are cause they arent 'that' many
and i like the way you smear our beating of Saudi Sportswashing Machine cause they missed a few players..oh yeah, if i remember correctly WE TOO didnt have a couple of players cause we started Saha and niko for that game if i remember correctly....where were lennon and VDV for instance ...ahaaaaa....but who cares when we are trying to be fair. but playing on the lack of quality being a strong factor as to why harry made mince meat of a team that despite not having said players managed to compete brilliantly with other teams and also played two strikers away to other teams as well, BEFORE and AFTER getting torn to shreds by us...and they came out looking pretty good still..playing on the factor of lower quality .. our boy AVB cant even beat norwhich at our ground. whats that about? Surely he should know that the quality being lower than his player he needs to go out there and spank these bitches...and even then he wont get enough of the credit cause he did with a strong factor of his team being miles better

I know I go on about the emirates, but it was a clear CLEAR indication that he was not at the races. We found ourselves 2-0 up despite being outplayed beyond the first 10 minutes, Harry said himself afterwards that he saw us getting overrun and felt perhaps he should make a change, but he didn't. Ledders was hurting that day and we did nothing to protect him! Instead, we went 4-3-3 second-half!!!!

we started off with 442 then we went to 451.....cause we took off niko and saha and brought on VDV and sandro. where did you get 433 and not 451? he was trying to stem the tide, it didnt work, we got beat. but like i said...that has got to be a big jewel in the case against him. i can mention 10 games where Harry beat the other guy


I undertand there will be dips, but not for two and a half months. And don't forget the previous season's two and a half month dip either.


yep we burnt out the previous season. And? thats not allowed to happen is it? especialy if we finished 5th that year. somewhere when i closed my eyes we must have become a true title contending team with out the title contending resources...as such it would be easy to get annoyed at getting 5th. Only us

Do I recognize there were great moments? of course! Said so many times. But it's churlish to think that anyone who criticized Harry Redknapp didn't consider those aspects, when there are literally thousands of written words detailing concerns over those precise elements mate...

These elements are reaches and for me they dont stick..if they do stick then they have to stick to AVB as well. its as simple as that
 
injuries and lack of form (ie no suitable cover) are the managers department which was definitely factored in to my appraisal of the situation and the England job scenario, i believe, is one of the main marks against him for those that were in favor of him being replaced so i don't quite agree with you saying it was merely down to missing out on CL there mate

in fact a last minute winner against Villa in the penultimate game, imho would have majorly papered of the cracks that had been forming over the past 3, 4 months or so

i agree with most of this here....or at least i can appreciate it

the only thing again i'm going to say is that if injuries, luck/ lack of form is the managers department then AVB must answer for those two. Kaboul injured? mark AVB down. We ship in goals while kaboul is injured...dont care...mark him down. we lose our confidence in the process and things start to spiral because of things out of his control like injuries, luck or form or confidence? Dooont care..mark that sucker down

if its Harry's bane then its AVB's as well

cant really defend the England thing , only that i didnt care h wanted the job

mate....problem for 4 months? that would take us back into january early......cause we went 3-1-0 in our last 4 league games. the rot started last january or early february and stopped in april..so i dont know what issues you might have seen 4 months prior. I dont know....are you counting back from the villa game? what about the two wins before those...the good wins i might add......did those paper over the cracks? cause if winning well papers over the cracks then i'll have some of that please.
 
Thank you.
As for the last bit...how could you ever, ever trust him again? Or would that not be important?
in a way no, it isnt that important...i expect him to look out for his own self interest...and he has to keep winning to be wanted.

harry redknapp practically told everyone he wanted to manage england and if it came about he wouldnt be able to say no. everyone here KNEW. it wasnt a secret..infact he was honest
 
Genuinely I have/had no issue with him wanting the job

Genuinely I thought he was made for the job

Genuinely I would have been very accepting had he got it, wished him well and everything

However, this


Is 100% unforgivable. Its dereliction of duty, negligence - he completely left us for dead - and there are no excuses.


yes , he had a lapse and didnt sure up the ship. i dont think i can defend that. Its just that for me i wouldnt sack the best manager i have ever had over it. Not if i really wanted to keep him
 
There are still some who can not let it go, same old excuses being trotted out. He is history and its time to concentrate on our future under our new manager, not trotting out how badly ( apparently) he was treated.
 
African, I agree with a lot of your points in a sense, but specifically, on England: Harry could have done more to dampen the speculation. It was in his interest to let the media tout him, for the public to think he was the right man for the job, to create a pressure that the FA wouldn't dare go against. In the end, he mis-analysed who the FA were looking for and their willingness to go for public opinion. But his son was writing articles basically telling them to hurry up and appoint his dad. He made no effort himself to even kill the speculation a little bit.

Why not deny it, say your challenging for the title with Tottenham and have the opportunity to do something amazing here, which is a chance he would never get with England? If he wants to then let the FA know privately and away from the public eye that if an appropriate offer was made, he would consider it and was only saying he wasn't interested to protect the club's interests because he is contracted to them right now, then all would have been fine. It was negligence, I'm 100% convinced that if he steered us into third then he could have left with the club's blessing, the fans would recognise he would have done his duty and we would have got a nice compensation pay out. He didn't for one second consider that he wouldn't get that job and it fudged us.

On rotation, you say who was he supposed to drop to fit Niko, Pienaar, Corluka in etc, who was he supposed to play to rest Parker? Livermore? Yes! 100% yes. There were plenty of games where Parker played and Sandro was on the bench for example. If he planned his rotation better, he could have worked it so against certain teams, where certain players qualities could be used other than the usual first 11, he could give some of the established guys a breather. If he then kept the rest of the team strong, but gave Parker a break one game, Walker a break another, Lennon a break another, he would have absolutely gotten away with it. But he didn't rotate.

Although I have to ask, is there a top manager at a top club that has the same rotation policy as Harry? One of play the best 11 at all costs in any game that isn't the Carling/Europa cup? Because if there is, then it would show that Harry's policy can work. He would say injuries force his rotation for example, and if other managers do it, then we can say that is fair enough. But if no other top club manager does it, then it does just smack of a guy that has been a mid-table manager his whole career and just doesn't have the expertise and planning capabilities to rotate a squad as is needed. And that may ultimately show he would never be the man to establish us among the top tier of clubs.
 
im happy to go over old ground here as for once this seems to be a decent debate. . . .

Pienaar, Corluka and Krancjar off the top of my head were players that were massively under used in the season just gone and were all available to use or not use at the managers discretion.

Corluka as cover for Walker, who fatigued dramatically the second half of the season

when would you have played , obviously started, these guys? and for whom?


Pienaar as cover for Lennon and the central positions - Lennon get's injured, Redknapp can't settle on a consistent 'fix' while he is absent so alternates between shunting VdV out of his natural position and using Bale/Modric out of position also - resulting in a loss of momentum and form and lost points.

right , so what you're saying is that pienaar who isnt actually naturally a left winger or right winger, had nothing but average performances for us except for like 2 games....is the guy that would have made the significant difference over VDV playing instead? okay then, its a matter or opinion and i dont share that. i think VDV on the right playing in a wonky is better than pienaar playing on his less favoured side in a position he has rarely ever played in his entire career. VDV on the other hand thats the most talented player on our team (though defensive work rate issues i'll admit)..its him that cant make a difference out there in lennons absence .

Redknapp not being able to settle on a consistent fix is him looking, actually trying to make something work

and you suffer from the amnesia thing that all of us do , so it not just limited to you..but modric over his career has played on the left about as much as he has in the middle ..plus in our 2nd best season of all time he played out on the left..infact when he went out injured that season...people were thankful we had a 'like for like replacement' for the left sided wonky cause we played a wide playmaker there in Niko.

now i wonder...why would people be happy to have a wide playmaker on the left? i'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that it cause modric did a great job there. so him on the left was not meant to be a bad thing

Krancjar as cover on the left or behind the striker

again for who...who are you dropping? when are you dropping them and why?

all 3 would have been important players in the second half of the season and all three were available to the manager but he either neglected to use them or sent them out on loan - he left himself dangerously short of cover and he is the one that should shoulder the blame, saying he wasn't backed in the market does not cut it at all in this instance

i'm going to give my ex manager the benefit of the doubt and say he let go of miserable employees in a time of season where playing was important for their careers. he did the humanitarian thing and you guys are punishing him for it
 
i agree with most of this here....or at least i can appreciate it

the only thing again i'm going to say is that if injuries, luck/ lack of form is the managers department then AVB must answer for those two. Kaboul injured? mark AVB down. We ship in goals while kaboul is injured...dont care...mark him down. we lose our confidence in the process and things start to spiral because of things out of his control like injuries, luck or form or confidence? Dooont care..mark that sucker down

if its Harry's bane then its AVB's as well

cant really defend the England thing , only that i didnt care h wanted the job

mate....problem for 4 months? that would take us back into january early......cause we went 3-1-0 in our last 4 league games. the rot started last january or early february and stopped in april..so i dont know what issues you might have seen 4 months prior. I dont know....are you counting back from the villa game? what about the two wins before those...the good wins i might add......did those paper over the cracks? cause if winning well papers over the cracks then i'll have some of that please.


4 months was to cover myself ;) - February till the end of the season is 3 and a bit months? hell you can even use January actually as a time where he let Pienaar and Corluka leave on loan which eventually caused us problems - so yea - the poor results may have only been 2.5 months or whatever but the cracks were forming earlier. anyway the time frame isn't really the issue here is it ?

as for the first part of your post - Villa Boas will be judged by the same standards as Harry - but as Nayim has said, judging Villa Boas now based on how we judged Harry after 4 seasons and several transfer windows is not an even way to go about it - which i am assuming is what you would like to see?
 
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4 months was to cover myself ;) - February till the end of the season is 3 and a bit months? hell you can even use January actually as a time where he let Pienaar and Corluka leave on loan which eventually caused us problems - so yea - the poor results may have only been 2.5 months or whatever but the cracks were forming earlier. anyway the time frame isn't really the issue here is it ?

as for the first part of your post - Villa Boas will be judged by the same standards as Harry - but as Nayim has said, judging Villa Boas now based on how we judged Harry after 4 seasons and several transfer windows is not reasonable.

but this is my point..end of the season includes when we got better. what was bad with when we got better
 
i'm going to give my ex manager the benefit of the doubt and say he let go of miserable employees in a time of season where playing was important for their careers. he did the humanitarian thing and you guys are punishing him for it

i will reply in more detail to the rest of this post but i have to drop this in quickly for the above :

:ross:

but this is my point..end of the season includes when we got better. what was bad with when we got better

the end of the season when we 'got better' was what 2/3 games long ? if that, last game against fulham was relatively free of pressure, it was out of our hands - Villa away an important game we threw away so what exactly was this dramatic turn around of form ?
 
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I thin Steff and Billy already touch on it. And it goes back to my insistence on the 4 years of his tenure adding context.

Whether you believe Levy made things difficult for him or not that is plenty of time to have an established team and as importantly established alternatives (in play and personel).

He didnt. That is a failure on his part.

right so its the length thats the primary issue, not the resources.

okay , i see where you're coming from. i dont agree though but i see what you are telling me

i personally feel if we had someone like redmond then lennons injury wouldnt have hurt so bad for us or if we had an ade back up or if we had someone able to step in for parker
 
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