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***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Chelsea, Tue May 19th, 8.15pm, Stamford Bridge ***

Genuine question on the Cucarella thing - are they saying that because the foul started because the ball was in play, it’s not a pen? Or because the ref blew before the ball was in play?

What I want to know is, whose to say what is a foul - considering how much grabbing goes on that goes unpunished on every corner - and therefore whose to say when it starts or otherwise?
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Genuine question on the Cucarella thing - are they saying that because the foul started because the ball was in play, it’s not a pen? Or because the ref blew before the ball was in play?

What I want to know is, whose to say what is a foul - considering how much grabbing goes on that goes unpunished on every corner - and therefore whose to say when it starts or otherwise?
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Basically if the ball is not in play at the time of the incident he cannot give a penalty as that is an in play award. So the thinking is if the foul actually occured before play restarted it's not a pen, even if the foul continued once play restarted. It is exactly for this reason why penalties are never given for the jostling that pretty always occurs before a corner is taken.

They usually take the easy option and just ignore it, but this time the ref actually penalised the player which is why it stands out. He clearly felt VDV had been fouled, I suppose only he knows if he saw it happening before the "same passage of play"he corner and if he believed it was part of
 
I hope togos the refereeing in the Champions league final which is about as good as it will ever get, shows us how it should be done.
 
Bishop said:
Basically if the ball is not in play at the time of the incident he cannot give a penalty as that is an in play award. So the thinking is if the foul actually occured before play restarted it's not a pen, even if the foul continued once play restarted. It is exactly for this reason why penalties are never given for the jostling that pretty always occurs before a corner is taken.

They usually take the easy option and just ignore it, but this time the ref actually penalised the player which is why it stands out. He clearly felt VDV had been fouled, I suppose only he knows if he saw it happening before the "same passage of play"he corner and if he believed it was part of
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ball in play is signified by the whistle too
 
Bishop said:
Basically if the ball is not in play at the time of the incident he cannot give a penalty as that is an in play award. So the thinking is if the foul actually occured before play restarted it's not a pen, even if the foul continued once play restarted. It is exactly for this reason why penalties are never given for the jostling that pretty always occurs before a corner is taken.

They usually take the easy option and just ignore it, but this time the ref actually penalised the player which is why it stands out. He clearly felt VDV had been fouled, I suppose only he knows if he saw it happening before the "same passage of play"he corner and if he believed it was part of
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So that makes me wonder then how they decide when the foul ‘began’? Was it when Cucarella’s arms went around Van De Ven? The first touch? Or when he was actually hauled to the ground? It just seems entirely subjective. There’s a lot of grabbing at corners that isn’t deemed a foul. So when was this? And was it actually while the ball was out of play?
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
So that makes me wonder then how they decide when the foul ‘began’? Was it when Cucarella’s arms went around Van De Ven? The first touch? Or when he was actually hauled to the ground? It just seems entirely subjective. There’s a lot of grabbing at corners that isn’t deemed a foul. So when was this? And was it actually while the ball was out of play?
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I actually think players should be penalised at corners for dragging players down even if it's down whilst the ball isn't in play. It removes this great area and the frankly ridiculous grabbing that happens so often at corners.
 
Bishop said:
I'm not arguing it was in or out of okay just the rationale. To me it should be really easy for VAR to check when the incident started versus whether the ball was in play or not.
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It is
And what is clear
Is the ball was in play
And the ref didn’t blow until after it was kicked
Why he chose what he did … I don’t know TBH
But factually, which is what var is there to fix, the ball was in play and the game had restarted
 
Whutommy said:
Suffering West Ham fan here in peace. We have quite a bit in common at the mo really, two crap squads and owners who prefer to study the balance sheet and don't give a toss about the team sheet. At least you lot have a plush home and don't rent off the council. We are on the way down in more ways than one, had we scraped another point then I think the pressure on your lot would be too great but avoiding a loss on Sunday is straightforward enough . To be honest, I don't care if we do go down anymore, I thought the VAR decision against Arsenal was bad enough, multiple infringements on our players after the ball was in play before their keeper was fouled. Call me simple but 30 years of watching the game, the first foul should be blown up. If VAR is here to ruin what used to be a spectator sport then why the f**k was it not utilised last night? The laws of the game are being rewritten under our noses to the point where a stonewall red card and penalty are dismissed. That decision last night was the final straw for me, this is not sport. I accepted our fate months ago, genuinely looking forward to getting out of the PL so I can enjoy my football again. COYS
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Appreciate hearing from across the aisle Tommy. I have several Hammers friends and we have all been discussing exactly what you have said here. In many ways our clubs have been torn apart by a series of concerns and entities which seem to be far beyond giving a brick about the football. Again, good to hear from you mate.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It is
And what is clear
Is the ball was in play
And the ref didn’t blow until after it was kicked
Why he chose what he did … I don’t know TBH
But factually, which is what var is there to fix, the ball was in play and the game had restarted
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Perhaps we'll get some mealy-mouthed, laughing-up-their-sleeves apology from PGMOL after we're relegated, in part through their incompetence.
 
Rorschach said:
The bad decisions seem to be coming more frequently, and at this stage of the season, they have bigger consequences. I am fully expecting the ref to nod in a winner for Everton at the weekend, and VAR will give it, obviously.
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It’s Oliver. He’d struggle to keep his head onside.
 
tommysvr said:
Quite clear the ball was in play when the ref blew

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Repeatedly, I find myself wondering why the foul on Richarlison wasn't called as a pen? That is happening with the ball in play, even if they want to argue that VdV foul happened before. There is a clear penalty there.
 
Robbo said:
It's just odd, but it's all on the refs for allowing corners to turn into a wrestling competition. They should've tried to enforce the rules correctly and consistently from the start instead.
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It's been going on for a few seasons now, don't think I can ever remember a penalty being given but you see replays every week of a defender with their arms wrapped around someone and nothings given. I expect there will be a directive next season and we'll see some penalties but then again I'm sure I read they were meant to be clamping down on it this season.
 
P.D. said:
It's been going on for a few seasons now, don't think I can ever remember a penalty being given but you see replays every week of a defender with their arms wrapped around someone and nothings given. I expect there will be a directive next season and we'll see some penalties but then again I'm sure I read they were meant to be clamping down on it this season.
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Bentacur had a pen go against him vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine
 
Whutommy said:
Suffering West Ham fan here in peace. We have quite a bit in common at the mo really, two crap squads and owners who prefer to study the balance sheet and don't give a toss about the team sheet. At least you lot have a plush home and don't rent off the council. We are on the way down in more ways than one, had we scraped another point then I think the pressure on your lot would be too great but avoiding a loss on Sunday is straightforward enough . To be honest, I don't care if we do go down anymore, I thought the VAR decision against Arsenal was bad enough, multiple infringements on our players after the ball was in play before their keeper was fouled. Call me simple but 30 years of watching the game, the first foul should be blown up. If VAR is here to ruin what used to be a spectator sport then why the f**k was it not utilised last night? The laws of the game are being rewritten under our noses to the point where a stonewall red card and penalty are dismissed. That decision last night was the final straw for me, this is not sport. I accepted our fate months ago, genuinely looking forward to getting out of the PL so I can enjoy my football again. COYS
Click to expand...

Good to hear from a Hammer perspective, Tommy, and I totally agree with what you say on VAR.

May the slightly less worse team survive!
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Bentacur had a pen go against him vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine
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Oh really don't even remember it - mind you I've done my best to wipe this season from memory.

Good old AI doesn't find much either but seems there's been a few this season.

The 5-Season Breakdown​

  • 2021–22 & 2022–23 (The "Let it Flow" Eras): In these seasons, penalties for shirt pulling or holding at corners practically vanished. Referees and VAR operated under a high threshold for "clear and obvious" errors, treating the physical tussling at corners as mutual grappling. Unless a player was practically tackled to the ground (like a rugby tackle), nothing was given.
  • 2023–24 (The Isolated VAR Interventions): A slight uptick occurred. Notably, Emirates Marketing Project were awarded a high-profile penalty against Manchester United when Rasmus Højlund pulled Rodri's shirt during a set-piece, which was spotted via a microscopic VAR review. Despite a few isolated incidents like this, the total across the league was still only a handful.
  • 2024–25 (The Inconsistency Crisis): The "corner chaos" truly escalated here. Teams like Arsenal and Everton perfected blocking and holding routines, leading to widespread media frustration. Pundits constantly pointed out that shirt pulling went unpunished because VAR refused to intervene if two players were deemed to be "tussling."
  • 2025–26 (The Current Directive Campaign): Ahead of the current 2025–26 season, PGMOL issued a strict new directive instructing referees to crack down on sustained and impactful holding in the penalty area. As a result, 7 penalties have been awarded for holding/shirt pulling this season alone (with 4 of them coming directly via VAR intervention).
 
@thfcsteff, are you gonna do the Everton thread? This is the most important OMT in the history of this board. Think carefully, summon whatever inspiration you can.

As the most positive person of Spurs persuasion, it can only be you. Make it a good one mate.
 
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