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OMT *** Tottenham Hotspur v Brentford FC ***

parj said:
This for me is key.

I would love to what the actual mindset is going into games. Efficiency is a word associated with TF a lot -not sure if it's a word he agrees with or not. But it makes me wonder if being more efficient is coming at the cost of trying to create chances. We put an awful lot of balls into the box to aim at just one or two players - we should surely be attacking it with 3 or 4 if that's the tactic. So where are the runners? It's a big problem for our attackers because most options are backwards. Xavi seems to try and break from that but it can't be just one player.

If we must wait for the perfect pass then where are the options?

I do think some players are overrated but they aren't as bad as this. No way Romero signed a new contract if we were this bad.
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We aren't that bad, we just don't fudging do the basics

- If you play two wingers who can stay wide, you would expect to use the width, and you would expect patterns of play that utilize the space created when opposition covers the wide players
- You play Richi, you focus on getting the ball to him in the box (the on actual time we did, we almost recreated the Gray headed goal)
- You have VDV, you don't need a block of four to negate a quick opposition striker.
-

This shows up every time we have a free throw, simple, no run, no one open and most of the time we lose the ball right after.

I'm not expecting Pep tactics, but if after 26 odd games players can't find a basic pass or have a few simple patterns, what the fudge are we doing? Are we going to spend 100M on players for this guy?
 
Raziel said:
We aren't that bad, we just don't fudging do the basics

- If you play two wingers who can stay wide, you would expect to use the width, and you would expect patterns of play that utilize the space created when opposition covers the wide players
- You play Richi, you focus on getting the ball to him in the box (the on actual time we did, we almost recreated the Gray headed goal)
- You have VDV, you don't need a block of four to negate a quick opposition striker.
-

This shows up every time we have a free throw, simple, no run, no one open and most of the time we lose the ball right after.

I'm not expecting Pep tactics, but if after 26 odd games players can't find a basic pass or have a few simple patterns, what the fudge are we doing? Are we going to spend 100M on players for this guy?
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We should be improving the squad for the sake of the club and whoever the next manager and the manager is after him.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Our XG was better, so not according to the machines.

I think the problem is, you have nailed your flag to the mast. So any chink and you want to condem Frank. Which is a sorry place to be. Why not go to the theatre? Do something else. Why go to be negative? Just don't get it.
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But your flag is on a mast too. Anyone says anything about TF or the way we are playing that is negative, you don't like it. It's not a sorry place to be, some people, including me, don't accept that we looked good - that's our perspective. You are entitled to yours - we could say would love what you are smoking to think that was anything other than poor.

The chance from the penalty spot for Richy was played behind him and didn't exactly have any pace on it... One could point yet again to brick service. We didn't have many chances that were clear cut. Grays was the closest from Richy creating the chance.

Other than that, it was poor. It's not a one-off. It's a plenty off at the moment. XG can't be used to show it was better in this game than Brentford, but then dismissed when it shows TF's Spurs have some of the lowest XGs recorded -not saying you have done the latter, but pro-TF have been quick to dismiss those.
 
parj said:
But your flag is on a mast too. Anyone says anything about TF or the way we are playing that is negative, you don't like it. It's not a sorry place to be,
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You enjoy being miserable :tearsofjoy:

The difference to pinning your support to the mast, and being negative about a new manager, is that it adds something. Gives them more time, space, positivity.

parj said:
some people, including me, don't accept that we looked good - that's our perspective. You are entitled to yours - we could say would love what you are smoking to think that was anything other than poor.

The chance from the penalty spot for Richy was played behind him and didn't exactly have any pace on it... One could point yet again to brick service. We didn't have many chances that were clear cut. Grays was the closest from Richy creating the chance.

Other than that, it was poor. It's not a one-off. It's a plenty off at the moment. XG can't be used to show it was better in this game than Brentford, but then dismissed when it shows TF's Spurs have some of the lowest XGs recorded -not saying you have done the latter, but pro-TF have been quick to dismiss those.
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You're aware that we're missing Madderson, Kulu and Solanke? And that we should sign a new player imminantly to replace Johnson?

Under the circumstances of where we are, we just a point away. Only city have won there. Enjoy being down about if that is your thing.
 
SpurMeUp said:
You enjoy being miserable :tearsofjoy:

The difference to pinning your support to the mast, and being negative about a new manager, is that it adds something. Gives them more time, space, positivity.


You're aware that we're missing Madderson, Kulu and Solanke? And that we should sign a new player imminantly to replace Johnson?

Under the circumstances of where we are, we just a point away. Only city have won there. Enjoy being down about if that is your thing.
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You can say anything you like about the positives, we did grind it out defensively. But we were utterly dreadful with the ball. In a sense I agree with Frank that we need to show more quality when we have the ball. Equally, with absolutely no in possession system, it can cause the players to feel rushed because they don’t know what the next move would be.

We raised our game versus Palace when we needed to. We defended pretty well but actually looked to be all over them once we decided to up our level. Here there was none of that. It was just a bad performance. Yes ok defensively (although they had the better chance as we didn’t create anything like the Lewis-Potter cut back).

But if you are saying that a tame effort from Richi on the swivel more than 12 yards out is ‘could have won it’ territory, I think your standards are really low. At the end of the day we are Tottenham. We have to have higher expectations than being happy we ground it out for a 0-0 at Brentford. Even with all of our injuries, our players are better than what they showed today in possession, easily, I will say they were poor too and didn’t help Frank. But Frank needs to show we can raise our game in possession for *at least* some periods in the match, if we aren’t going to look to impose our style on the majority of it. And we just didn’t today.

You’re defending Frank more than he would defend the team himself tonight. It just was not good.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
You can say anything you like about the positives, we did grind it out defensively. But we were utterly dreadful with the ball. In a sense I agree with Frank that we need to show more quality when we have the ball. Equally, with absolutely no in possession system, it can cause the players to feel rushed because they don’t know what the next move would be.

We raised our game versus Palace when we needed to. We defended pretty well but actually looked to be all over them once we decided to up our level. Here there was none of that. It was just a bad performance. Yes ok defensively (although they had the better chance as we didn’t create anything like the Lewis-Potter cut back).

But if you are saying that a tame effort from Richi on the swivel more than 12 yards out is ‘could have won it’ territory, I think your standards are really low. At the end of the day we are Tottenham. We have to have higher expectations than being happy we ground it out for a 0-0 at Brentford. Even with all of our injuries, our players are better than what they showed today in possession, easily, I will say they were poor too and didn’t help Frank. But Frank needs to show we can raise our game in possession for *at least* some periods in the match, if we aren’t going to look to impose our style on the majority of it. And we just didn’t today.

You’re defending Frank more than he would defend the team himself tonight. It just was not good.
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No one thinks it was a great performance. You like to try to create a staw man to argue against. But we did have the higher expected goals. Not bad away with such a patched up side.
 
SpurMeUp said:
You enjoy being miserable :tearsofjoy:

The difference to pinning your support to the mast, and being negative about a new manager, is that it adds something. Gives them more time, space, positivity.


You're aware that we're missing Madderson, Kulu and Solanke? And that we should sign a new player imminantly to replace Johnson?

Under the circumstances of where we are, we just a point away. Only city have won there. Enjoy being down about if that is your thing.
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It's not being miserable, i'm not accepting mediocrity. You carry on dreaming of AVB, Jose, and Conte days. I'll remember how we played when Redknapp and Poch let us play. They weren't football genius's but they got us playing, and one even dared to have us challenging the elite in England and Europe

I'm fully aware we are missing those players, so can we have 27 goals without them? We can clearly play when we want to... We have shown it without those players. Then all of a sudden we pull out the rubbish performances again. You can make the excuses you want, but these players without Kulu, Solanke, and Maddison have scored goals when they remember to play football.

What happened on those occasions? Did the acceptance of mediocrity remind them to not attack? To show no composure on the ball?

I fully believe Kulu will take us to another level, but Xavi is better all round than Maddison, and Solanke is no upgrade on what we have... He adds another average striker to an already average attack.

Johnson leaving makes no impact on Frank. He hardly used him. The extra player we don't have doesn't come into the equation until we know what kind of player comes in -it might be a club signing for all we know.
 
Raziel said:
Always, but not if it's another Johnson for Ange player, or whoever the fudge Tel was for
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Tel seems another opportunistic signing, like Solomon, done largely because we negotiated a “bargain” price.

Maybe he’ll come good but hopefully goes out on loan for the rest of this season, as Odobert seems a better option currently and no good for a youngster to rot on the bench when the gaffer clearly don’t like the cut of his jib.
 
SpurMeUp said:
No one thinks it was a great performance. You like to try to create a staw man to argue against. But we did have the higher expected goals. Not bad away with such a patched up side.
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I genuinely searched my post to see where I said that you said it was a great performance, and I didn’t. I responded to your specific points around Richy nearly winning it. And the idea that grinding it out with a performance like that is good enough for us.

I was happy with the defensive effort. I thought we were terrible on the ball and it meant we lost a bunch of opportunities to break away. Frank agrees with that. If we’re going to defend that way, we need to be able to move the ball forward and get those break aways when the opportunity comes.
 
what a dreary performance

its down to TF and i wonder if the fans booing is really getting to him and he is being very conservative. he is right that brentford are way capable of scoring so puts out a very defensive team. richy did have at least two chances to score from in the last 15-20 mins so we didn't take our chances,

vicario - Ok but would have preferred if he took more chances launching quick attacks
spence - good effort and all over the place, he was better than odobert going forwards
porro - for someone who is supposed to be our best crosser..... not many connected
romero - needs to play with a cooler head, could have been double yellowed again (yes, brentford were trying to force it)
VDV - solid performance
kudus - double/triple marked so i don't blame him... but no one seems to be able to find the extra space
grey - new role and was getting into good positions but no chemistry with those up front
richy - has enough chances to put away at least one goal. too lazy to run forward to the near post for one, and could have afforded an extra touch for another - but i guess he doesn't trust in himself !
 
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