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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur FC v Aston Villa ***

Bedfordspurs said:
It’s tactical
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thfcsteff said:
I think that's the subtext of what people are saying???
Look, let's be honest, we have not found any way to utilize our top scorer last season. If Solanke was fit, I'd get it. But we are in a position where Richy is sadly proving me wrong (I thought he'd stepped up), Tel is a student, and Muani has been crocked, yet we have not even tried to adapt play to use Johnson through the middle and look to get him, Xavi and Kudus working as a triangle which utilizes quick passing into channels and in behind. Villa played with that high high line; what better a moment to see if we can either pop balls in behind via VdV and Porro for Brennan, or to play an extra carrier such as Lucas or Pape to make those 20-30 yards and find Johnson on the floor? It would at least be worth trying IMO...

I think there's a lot going on, and I think the manager is dealing with a lot he has never dealt with before. It is going to take him some time to find his groove/get things very right.
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The thing he has never dealt with is expectation
Turgid football but some decent wins is enough at Brentford
He is missing goals
That’s true
But we aren’t even getting near to creating chances for those goals because it’s like a crab
Everything goes sideways and that’s what he is clearly asking

Let’s pick on today, and Spence. He can’t use his left leg so everything comes inside. Then Odobert who was decent …. Same issue for me
Then Tel was over there trying to hell

It’s bro balanced or effective

The tactic is pretty much goes wide and cross or …. How Kudus does magic

It reminds me of school football where one guy is so much better and can make the deference (kudus) if everyone else does the basics well
 
Bishop said:
Remember I said to you before it's a broken model when you're relying on a CB to essentially be your "playmaker."

Id like to see a ball playing 8 added to the squad as well as a quality LWF and CF. Until we have these things I think the side will always look somewhat unbalanced and missing something.
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Do you remember what I replied or are you being obtuse. Let me remind you. Essentially, I said that being someone who was raised on the likes of Glenn Hoddle, etc, I love passing creative players because they are what this club is to me. However, at the time you dsaid what you said, I was pointing out that the then management had chosen to push a lot of the tempo of our game through Romero.

And again, I have to ask, how much did you watch Brentford? TF likes to create in other ways.

So your 'broken model' is only 'broken' in the sense that it is a model not centred around a style you want to see...FWIW, I would also love to see a model more like this.

As for a 'ball-playing 8' we have to figure out of we think/trust Lucas Bergvall to develop that skillset fully (he has shown flashes of it) or whether we simply see him as 'Sarr-esque'.

I cannot remember off the top if Gray was a sub. He'd have been a really interesting option today as he can play incisive channel passes in and around the box.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The thing he has never dealt with is expectation
Turgid football but some decent wins is enough at Brentford
He is missing goals
That’s true
But we aren’t even getting near to creating chances for those goals because it’s like a crab
Everything goes sideways and that’s what he is clearly asking

Let’s pick on today, and Spence. He can’t use his left leg so everything comes inside. Then Odobert who was decent …. Same issue for me
Then Tel was over there trying to hell

It’s bro balanced or effective

The tactic is pretty much goes wide and cross or …. How Kudus does magic

It reminds me of school football where one guy is so much better and can make the deference (kudus) if everyone else does the basics well
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I agree.
I found his presser really interesting from that perspective.
 
harr1984 said:
I don't get it, it's such a basic tactic just throwing it into the box and why? Who are we hoping to get on the end of all these crosses? Tel? Odobert? Simons? I would have understand if we had a couple of attacking aerial beasts but we don't.

We look very one dimensional and if the excuse for a lack of creativity is missing Romero then that says it all....
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I think it comes down to approach. I still believe we can be more creative in central areas than we are, and we can utilise the likes of Xavi and Bergvall much more than we do.
 
thfcsteff said:
I think it comes down to approach. I still believe we can be more creative in central areas than we are, and we can utilise the likes of Xavi and Bergvall much more than we do.
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We definitely can. Frank is a pragmatic manager, this is my concern for him being Spurs manager - he's going to have to show more. And yes I've heard about this season in the Championship where he played more expansive football but in the PL he never has.

I've seen the excuse about he needs players x,y and z but let's say we had an Ireola with the same available players Frank has right now - we would be playing much better football. But this is simply Franks style, sure having Solanke etc back will be of benefit but I don't see the style of football dramatically changing. And of course it's still early doors, but we can only comment on the football we see in front of our eyes....
 
harr1984 said:
We definitely can. Frank is a pragmatic manager, this is my concern for him being Spurs manager - he's going to have to show more. And yes I've heard about this season in the Championship where he played more expansive football but in the PL he never has.

I've seen the excuse about he needs players x,y and z but let's say we had an Ireola with the same available players Frank has right now - we would be playing much better football. But this is simply Franks style, sure having Solanke etc back will be of benefit but I don't see the style of football dramatically changing. And of course it's still early doors, but we can only comment on the football we see in front of our eyes....
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I think this will become a key discussion/point as the season progresses.
 
thfcsteff said:
Do you remember what I replied or are you being obtuse. Let me remind you. Essentially, I said that being someone who was raised on the likes of Glenn Hoddle, etc, I love passing creative players because they are what this club is to me. However, at the time you dsaid what you said, I was pointing out that the then management had chosen to push a lot of the tempo of our game through Romero.

And again, I have to ask, how much did you watch Brentford? TF likes to create in other ways.

So your 'broken model' is only 'broken' in the sense that it is a model not centred around a style you want to see...FWIW, I would also love to see a model more like this.

As for a 'ball-playing 8' we have to figure out of we think/trust Lucas Bergvall to develop that skillset fully (he has shown flashes of it) or whether we simply see him as 'Sarr-esque'.

I cannot remember off the top if Gray was a sub. He'd have been a really interesting option today as he can play incisive channel passes in and around the box.
Click to expand...
Hah I wasn't being obtuse just reminding you we had this convo. I don't have a problem with Romero's passing I just don't believe it's an optimum way of playing football. You want a CB like him in addition to quality in midfield rather than instead of.

Regarding Bergvall I'm not sure he really has that game and probably not any time soon. So far he's been much more of a driver of the ball rather than either a tempo setter or even someone who has a cute pass in him, I've not really seen anything that suggests he has an expansive or inci.sive passing vision. I think you'll be disappointed if you're expecting that play style, it just doesn't appear to be his game.

Gray would be an option as he has shown some good proactive switches of the play but the issue being that none of Gray, Sarr or Bergvall are the finished article or are particularly close to it. I'd like someone more akin to Bentancur pre injury in the squad at least, someone who you can reliably expect to provide a particular play style that currently we are lacking.
 
thfcsteff said:
I think that's the subtext of what people are saying???
Look, let's be honest, we have not found any way to utilize our top scorer last season. If Solanke was fit, I'd get it. But we are in a position where Richy is sadly proving me wrong (I thought he'd stepped up), Tel is a student, and Muani has been crocked, yet we have not even tried to adapt play to use Johnson through the middle and look to get him, Xavi and Kudus working as a triangle which utilizes quick passing into channels and in behind. Villa played with that high high line; what better a moment to see if we can either pop balls in behind via VdV and Porro for Brennan, or to play an extra carrier such as Lucas or Pape to make those 20-30 yards and find Johnson on the floor? It would at least be worth trying IMO...

I think there's a lot going on, and I think the manager is dealing with a lot he has never dealt with before. It is going to take him some time to find his groove/get things very right.
Click to expand...
Johnson is too poor at everything else other than finding space and finishing that Frank isn't willing to handicap the rest of the team to try and make it work (it wouldn't anyway). Besides other than Xavi we don't really have anyone particular good at playing those kinds of passes who is fit and available. It might be an idea of either Kulu or Maddison were fit but even then I truly think it wouldn't work the way you expect. A striker does at a minimum needs more to their game than Johnson can offer.
 
thfcsteff said:
And thus a lack of personality in that regard.
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Yep
And I think our coaching team are great
I’m having dinner with my nephew who works for derby at the mo
He has met Justin at the England set up and says he is great and all about progressive play etc….
Apparently at Loughborough there is talk about him, Matt and also the GK coach too as key coaching figures
 
Bishop said:
Johnson is too poor at everything else other than finding space and finishing that Frank isn't willing to handicap the rest of the team to try and make it work (it wouldn't anyway). Besides other than Xavi we don't really have anyone particular good at playing those kinds of passes who is fit and available. It might be an idea of either Kulu or Maddison were fit but even then I truly think it wouldn't work the way you expect. A striker does at a minimum needs more to their game than Johnson can offer.
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We have no idea unless it was tried. To your point, Frank doesn't see it as worth trying. I think that is because he wants to woprk the system he is most comfortable with. His perogative, however when you have a team playing a line that high, all you need are one or two early balls over the top for Johnson to have chances to score. Not saying it's 'the answer' but it was a potential option.
 
Bishop said:
Johnson is too poor at everything else other than finding space and finishing that Frank isn't willing to handicap the rest of the team to try and make it work (it wouldn't anyway). Besides other than Xavi we don't really have anyone particular good at playing those kinds of passes who is fit and available. It might be an idea of either Kulu or Maddison were fit but even then I truly think it wouldn't work the way you expect. A striker does at a minimum needs more to their game than Johnson can offer.
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For a team where the attack lacks goals…. I’d give Johnson a chance
Odobert had his best game for us IMO
And Johnson was on for a fraction of the time he was but had that chance that went out for a throw in. Odobert wouldn’t have got that chance for some weird reason
 
Just rewatching the goals.
Such a shame that Danso slips at the last second, and the ball whizzes by him, as he plays a man onside. Danso had a really good game, but in that moment, it was doubly bad (luck) that he slipped.

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Look also at the chance Odobert had from 7 yards, he instinctively whacked it at goal and it hit the defender (Onana?) in the chest/arms. Either side and he scores and we're all saying how well Odobert played, how lively he was, what a streak of form he is on...

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Frank is reminded here that Mo scored but was offside, I honestly can't remember that!
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thfcsteff said:
We have no idea unless it was tried. To your point, Frank doesn't see it as worth trying. I think that is because he wants to woprk the system he is most comfortable with. His perogative, however when you have a team playing a line that high, all you need are one or two early balls over the top for Johnson to have chances to score. Not saying it's 'the answer' but it was a potential option.
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I like your optimism but im not sure who we see playing the kind of accurately weighted passes necessary to succeed in that manner?
 
markysimmo said:
and in a new country and new league
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thfcsteff said:
It is, but I feel Madders would have similar issues with the current players in and around him. I don't disagree that Xavi has to show more personality; I have to remind myself he is still only 22 TBF...
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That’s part of our problem. We’ve overstocked youth again. Xavi shouldn’t be trying to settle in wrapped round U21s. You win nothing with kids!

It’s a tough old league. Requires experience in the main with a smattering of youth blended in bit by bit.
 
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