*** OMT: Spurs vs Sunderland*** Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, Sunday 4th January, 3pm

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

We played high intensity yesterday, but the quality isn't there. That's why we didn't actually create much in terms of proper chances. That's what I keep talking about, not that we can't play with the intent but that the players we have are of lowish quality so when they do get into those positions we are going to struggle actually make something concrete out of them. Today was a perfect example of this.

But if the quality isn’t there, it’s also not there when we are countering and missing the final pass for the tap in, as shown with Richy and RKM.

I respect your POV, I think I just thought it was more that we are not capable of playing progressive football because we don’t have the players to do it. And so Frank has to play low block and counter.

If it’s actually that we are capable of playing progressive football but we don’t have the quality for the cutting edge, I think that’s a bit of a different thing. Because I think it’s fair to argue then that we also wouldn’t have it to make the most of the counter attack opportunities either.

As it was, I do think Frank was let down by the players today. I don’t think that means that overall they are incapable of executing better in the right moments, but in specific instances in this game they failed to do the right thing. But if the quality is lacking whether we are high line or low block, I think it shows that Frank or any manager would have a choice of how they set up. And hopefully more often than not these players execute better, regardless of what the intent is

 

[DubSpur]

We played high intensity yesterday, but the quality isn't there. That's why we didn't actually create much in terms of proper chances. That's what I keep talking about, not that we can't play with the intent but that the players we have are of lowish quality so when they do get into those positions we are going to struggle actually make something concrete out of them. Today was a perfect example of this.

If the team only plays that way once every 20 games of course they're going to struggle when they get into those positions. Do it every game and they'll get used to being in those positions and get better in them. Again, that doesn't mean we can't upgrade on players.

 

[Baleforce]

I agree he's lost the fans. Even winning games at this point isn't going to turn it around I don't think. We want sexy football now and he's not capable of doing that with this squad. Maybe if he gets some January additions it might be possible but we have too many changes needed.

Go with the will of the people and sack him. Let's see how well the next guy does. I await essentially the same complaints with whomever that turns out to be, because I know I saw the same problems under Ange and Conte and Jose etc etc etc.

you can't play sexy football in the PL and pick up points

 

[Bishop]

But if the quality isn’t there, it’s also not there when we are countering and missing the final pass for the tap in, as shown with Richy and RKM.

I respect your POV, I think I just thought it was more that we are not capable of playing progressive football because we don’t have the players to do it. And so Frank has to play low block and counter.

If it’s actually that we are capable of playing progressive football but we don’t have the quality for the cutting edge, I think that’s a bit of a different thing. Because I think it’s fair to argue then that we also wouldn’t have it to make the most of the counter attack opportunities either.

As it was, I do think Frank was let down by the players today. I don’t think that means that overall they are incapable of executing better in the right moments, but in specific instances in this game they failed to do the right thing. But if the quality is lacking whether we are high line or low block, I think it shows that Frank or any manager would have a choice of how they set up. And hopefully more often than not these players execute better, regardless of what the intent is

My friend I've said to you I think multiple times now that we can play more progressive football I even used Ange's term as an example of us doing so with essentially this same group of players.

My contention has always been and always will be that this group of players can't do it well. I.e we can pass the ball around, we can work into the opposition half (often too slowly) but when we are there we lack the ability to actually slice a settled team open in the same way Sunderland did to us (I only saw their goal from the stands but it looked crisp).

On counters we will miscontrol, under or over hit a pass, or just miss the pass entirely. Take too many touches, miss the opportunity to shoot, over dribble or just get tackled before even the key moment etc. none of those deficiencies are coach led for me. They are intrinsically player quality based. The better players make better decisions, they are able to pull off the easy pass more often and hit the more difficult pass that the basics player won't even attempt. Their shots have more accuracy, they have more power etc etc etc.

I don't even think this should be difficult to fathom (not meaning to you directly but more so talking about our fan base in totality). We've seen much better players here before, we know what a world class striker looks like, we know what a good striker looks like. Hell we know what a decent striker looks like and then we look at Richy! It's the same for midfield, for the wings, for the defense etc. We know these players aren't of a high standard why are we lying to ourselves? Because they play for Spurs and we have to have blind ourselves to some sort of twisted "loyalty."

I despair.

 

[Bishop]

If the team only plays that way once every 20 games of course they're going to struggle when they get into those positions. Do it every game and they'll get used to being in those positions and get better in them. Again, that doesn't mean we can't upgrade on players.

We did it for 76 games under Ange, these same exact things still happened.

It's quality of player that is the difference maker.

 

[parj]

I agree he's lost the fans. Even winning games at this point isn't going to turn it around I don't think. We want sexy football now and he's not capable of doing that with this squad. Maybe if he gets some January additions it might be possible but we have too many changes needed.

Go with the will of the people and sack him. Let's see how well the next guy does. I await essentially the same complaints with whomever that turns out to be, because I know I saw the same problems under Ange and Conte and Jose etc etc etc.

Ange - all out attack with a ridiculously high line that every team learnt to exploit.

Jose/Conte - both started trying to play attacking, and then within a transfer window went back to pragmatic football with players like Kane, Son, Lamela.

It's balanced manager that will get the most out of our squads and keep the fans onside longer - jol, Redknapp, poch

 

[Mikey10]

I agree he's lost the fans. Even winning games at this point isn't going to turn it around I don't think. We want sexy football now and he's not capable of doing that with this squad. Maybe if he gets some January additions it might be possible but we have too many changes needed.

Go with the will of the people and sack him. Let's see how well the next guy does. I await essentially the same complaints with whomever that turns out to be, because I know I saw the same problems under Ange and Conte and Jose etc etc etc.

I’d do it tonight. We’re in danger of losing our Biggest Banter Club title to United, so best to move early.

 

[Daisuk]

Positives - We attacked with more men and with more pace than usual in the first half. Tel has something to offer us, he just needs minutes - him either crossing (which he is good at) or cutting in to either shoot, cross or find a run, can be a very valuable asset to us. Bentancur had a good day at the office, second in a row now. Ben Davies goal! And another solid performance by him. We didn't really concede a lot of chances.

Their goal was a stunner. Excellent build up and what a finish. Apart from that they didn’t have much. So, we were very close to three points. Not a great performance by us, but overall not too bad considering the circumstances. I think we deserved the win.

 

[Mabspurs]

My friend I've said to you I think multiple times now that we can play more progressive football I even used Ange's term as an example of us doing so with essentially this same group of players.

My contention has always been and always will be that this group of players can't do it well. I.e we can pass the ball around, we can work into the opposition half (often too slowly) but when we are there we lack the ability to actually slice a settled team open in the same way Sunderland did to us (I only saw their goal from the stands but it looked crisp).

On counters we will miscontrol, under or over hit a pass, or just miss the pass entirely. Take too many touches, miss the opportunity to shoot, over dribble or just get tackled before even the key moment etc. none of those deficiencies are coach led for me. They are intrinsically player quality based. The better players make better decisions, they are able to pull off the easy pass more often and hit the more difficult pass that the basics player won't even attempt. Their shots have more accuracy, they have more power etc etc etc.

I don't even think this should be difficult to fathom (not meaning to you directly but more so talking about our fan base in totality). We've seen much better players here before, we know what a world class striker looks like, we know what a good striker looks like. Hell we know what a decent striker looks like and then we look at Richy! It's the same for midfield, for the wings, for the defense etc. We know these players aren't of a high standard why are we lying to ourselves? Because they play for Spurs and we have to have blind ourselves to sort of twisted "loyalty."

I despair.

Outstanding!! Best post of the night.... encapsulates the situation to a tee; at least for those who want to see the truth. Again, our recruitment team over the past 5 years need shooting!!!

 

[Lemonade Money]

Jeeeeeeeeeeez

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Step away.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Step away.

It's cool. Just makes you realise the number of divs in the support base

 

[Mrs Vert]

I agree. Not sure Danso is as good if asked to play more frequently however. What we forget is VDV is 24. Not an experienced CB at all.

We have an inexperienced side. The more they play together, analyse what happened in each game the more they’ll grow. Fans love promising young players but rarely want to extend them time and space to make mistakes learn and develop.

And then we wonder why we don't win more games. Our midfield doesn't start for any of the top 5.
Our youngsters for other teams would be eased in. We are relying on them now.

Anyhow we are all just repeating ourselves. If Son and Kane had the chances to make those passes instead of what we had today. We go 2 up and we move on.

Sell BJ and look what happens Kudus injured. People have already said why sell him so early. ... This club is something else. ENIC 2.0 WILL SAVE THE DAY.

We are where we are because of past decisions

 

[Lemonade Money]

Contemplating chucking it in myself tbh - the fanbase has become disgusting since moving to the new stadium.

I think Levy had it right with the stadium, in order to be on a level footing with teams above us, who had either achieved their status by continually winning stuff and CL money, or teams that won the money washing lottery.
The problem is, we've got the bling stadium, we've got the expensive seat, but it's ahead of the successful team, and there lies the resentment. I'm trying to think how this gets resolved, and all I can come up with is they should massively slash the price of a basic ST. Get the singing fans onside. Get the atmosphere conductive. Sod the corporate, that's just a status symbol anyway, and if the atmosphere is good, they'll be happy.
Not sure what that would cost the club in terms of revenue, but it could be money well spent.
Or carry on down this toxic road.

 

[Mrs Vert]

Once you've lost the crowd to the degree he has, it's done.

Socials are full of it as well, if we go on a run of wins as soon as we lose again it will all come back.

The club is toxic at the moment, maybe a new manager might quiet it down slightly.

We are masters of that and fail every time other than Ange and even in that was a failure!!
I wouldn't even mind if we did a Chelsea and won cups ( I don't like how they did it) but they have had as many managers and won more
I cannot with this club......doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Madness

 

[DeanoAustin]

And then we wonder why we don't win more games. Our midfield doesn't start for any of the top 5.
Our youngsters for other teams would be eased in. We are relying on them now.

Anyhow we are all just repeating ourselves. If Son and Kane had the chances to make those passes instead of what we had today. We go 2 up and we move on.

Sell BJ and look what happens Kudus injured. People have already said why sell him so early. ... This club is something else. ENIC 2.0 WILL SAVE THE DAY.

We are where we are because of past decisions

We are where we are because of past decisions. 100%. But I don’t get the criticism of the Johnson sale, I really don’t.

We decided the lad was surplus to requirements and got the deal done quickly for a good price. Drag our heels until we sign someone and Palace may move on or try to bargain us down. That’s one of the few criticisms I’d have of Levy (how he handled departures).

If we get to the end of the window and have no one, you may have more of a point.

 

[Mrs Vert]

So you can assault players in the face and stay on the pitch.....good to know. Ref was once again a disgrace

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

My friend I've said to you I think multiple times now that we can play more progressive football I even used Ange's term as an example of us doing so with essentially this same group of players.

My contention has always been and always will be that this group of players can't do it well. I.e we can pass the ball around, we can work into the opposition half (often too slowly) but when we are there we lack the ability to actually slice a settled team open in the same way Sunderland did to us (I only saw their goal from the stands but it looked crisp).

On counters we will miscontrol, under or over hit a pass, or just miss the pass entirely. Take too many touches, miss the opportunity to shoot, over dribble or just get tackled before even the key moment etc. none of those deficiencies are coach led for me. They are intrinsically player quality based. The better players make better decisions, they are able to pull off the easy pass more often and hit the more difficult pass that the basics player won't even attempt. Their shots have more accuracy, they have more power etc etc etc.

I don't even think this should be difficult to fathom (not meaning to you directly but more so talking about our fan base in totality). We've seen much better players here before, we know what a world class striker looks like, we know what a good striker looks like. Hell we know what a decent striker looks like and then we look at Richy! It's the same for midfield, for the wings, for the defense etc. We know these players aren't of a high standard why are we lying to ourselves? Because they play for Spurs and we have to have blind ourselves to sort of twisted "loyalty."

I despair.

Ok. I may have misunderstood you and for that I apologise. If you’re saying that due to the quality of the player, it doesn’t matter how you play because ultimately it will all snap back to the same sorts of results, that I probably agree with. I do think there’s moments at the peak of the coaching cycle where players are elevated above their normal stations because everything is starting to come together - the pieces fit, the players are comfortable etc etc and so that’s where a system can better it, but even the system managers that we’ve had all reach a point where they say to make a proper challenge for the title we need better players. So I get you,

I could have sworn there was someone on here saying effectively that Frank had no choice but to play this way because the quality of the squad was so poor. Again if that wasn’t you I apologise, but that was the main thing I was arguing against.

 

[Lemonade Money]

So you can assault players in the face and stay on the pitch.....good to know. Ref was once again a disgrace

If you do enough to win a match, a refs incompetence doesn't come into it.

 

[Mrs Vert]

We are where we are because of past decisions. 100%. But I don’t get the criticism of the Johnson sale, I really don’t.

We decided the lad was surplus to requirements and got the deal done quickly for a good price. Drag our heels until we sign someone and Palace may move on or try to bargain us down. That’s one of the few criticisms I’d have of Levy (how he handled departures).

If we get to the end of the window and have no one, you may have more of a point.

This club has conditioned me into thinking that they will not fill the gaps and we will be weaker come end of window!! But we live in hope.
Left side is still not done (day 5 I know) and getting rid of others and not replacing them as yet!! We have games every 2 days. It's a fine line but the faith has just left the building for me. Knowing us we may strengthen left and we would have weakened the right!!

I don't mind BJ leaving...just get people in first!! Nobody knows when dom or kulu is back

 

[DeanoAustin]

This club has conditioned me into thinking that they will not fill the gaps and we will be weaker come end of window!! But we live in hope.
Left side is still not done (day 5 I know) and getting rid of others and not replacing them as yet!! We have games every 2 days. It's a fine line but the faith has just left the building for me. Knowing us we may strengthen left and we would have weakened the right!!

I don't mind BJ leaving...just get people in first!!

Haha I hear you brother.

My daughter asked me at the game today “why do you have so much grey hair”.

“I’m 46, I’ve 2 kids and I support Spurs.”

That’s too much stress for any man.