Next Spurs manager mega-thread

[parklane1]

look at the bilge that gets spouted on here on a regular basis, its rare that the more mature posters post crap of such a puerile nature.
There are exceptions however, like there are to any rule.

I can only comment on what I see, and some of the stuff posted on here recently has been shameful.

I I can't dance with that but unfortunately that is the society we live in, i am a mature poster and have been accused by some of talking brick though. :frown:

 

[Jurgen the German]

Just watched Guardiola's press conference, a few things stand out to me.

He's lost some of his passion for the game.

You could see from his reaction on the touchline on Tuesday that he seems a bit jaded by the politics at Barca, the pressure to deliver multiple trophies each season, the pressure of dealing with the media constantly and the the rivalry with Real Madrid must have taken its toll. Compare his reaction on Tuesday to his histrionics when they knocked Chelsea out at Stamford Bridge in 2009.

Just hope he doesn't go to the scum. Can't see him going to Emirates Marketing Project or Chelsea.

 

[EJG]

Might be right, but then again, name a successful English manager in the last 15 years? why again would you take a punt?

Its Spurs.... Damned if you do - damned if you dont...

Id rather go for it, follow our principles more, than try and play the numbers. Id rather appoint a man than a CV.

At some point Capello was a nobody who needed a chance, Mourinho, Hiddink...

Rossi is right, its a very English mentality to look only for "proven" managers.

It's a catch 22 situation. Young English managers / up and coming unproven managers are perceived as being unsuccessful so they won't get a chance at the top jobs, but if they don't get a chance at the top jobs they can never prove that they can be successful.

Any manager is a risk. Hiddink would be a risk, he did well at Chelsea, but he had a terrible time at Real Madrid. If we went for him which Hiddink would we get? It's impossible to tell.

Milan hired Allegri after he did okay at Cagliari, he won a league title. Inter went for Gasperini after he did okay at Genoa, he was a massive flop. If we appoint a young / unproven manager would they do an Allegri or a Gasperini? It's impossible to tell.

I just hope Levy puts aside everything and bases his decision simply on who he genuinely thinks will do the best job for Spurs, whether that's a up and coming youngster or a grizzled old campaginer. I'll back whoever he picks to the hilt. Until they lose... 3 matches

 

[Bullet]

Nothing is guaranteed, so I would rather give one of Martinez, Rodgers or Lambert a chance.

Levy should interview the three of them and have a bit of a think, see if they are really up to managing VdV, Modric, Adebayor etc.

I was impressed with Rodgers on Football Focus - he seemed very sure of himself, yet spoke about trying to guarantee somewhere for his team to train, so he was building a structure from the ground all the way to the top.

Martinez has a very good record for the resources/expectation - and I feel he would be a draw for Latinos wanting to come to the Prem - he has attracted a lot of South Americans to Wigan, which would be great

And Lambert has a great playing and coaching career so far

Interview them, they all play good football - and pick one - simple pimple

 

[milo]

Nothing is guaranteed, so I would rather give one of Martinez, Rodgers or Lambert a chance.

I agree with the first part, disagree with the second. I would rather that Levy went with the an available manager with the best record over a number of years. Martinez, Rodgers and Lambert have had good seasons but present a massive risk.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Might be right, but then again, name a successful English manager in the last 15 years? why again would you take a punt?

This.

I've nothing against English managers at all, but they are so behind the times in terms of tactics and sports science. I do admire Rodgers as he's the first homegrown manager since Hoddle who has really attempted to break out of the bad old culture.

Interestingly both the 'English' options are actually from overseas.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Nothing is guaranteed, so I would rather give one of Martinez, Rodgers or Lambert a chance.

Why go for Adebayor in the summer when we could have given Kane or Obika a chance?

We've really got to be aiming higher (and have these lower league options as fall back)

 

[milo]

Random reading if Guardiola interests you.

Some Liverpool fan posted those on RAWK, they're from Graham Hunter's Barca book, which is awesome although shamelessly biased.

Thanks for that, very interesting

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It's still a bit like replacing Modric with Joe Allen or Jonny Howson, rather than say Javi Martinez.

Barcelona don't need a manager (and managers often don't work at Barcelona). They have such a strong system/DoF that they only really need a coach.

It's not at all.

The thing with these 'we must appoint a big name' approaches is that it can just as easily fail. So many coaches have initial success in their first couple of roles, but then spend the rest of their careers aimlessly floating around from one job to the next. A lot of the time, the main reason they had success in the first place was because they had a favourable set of circumstances at a club which allowed them to do so. Success doesn't just come with appointing a manager who has won something before and watching it happen. It's about having the right circumstances, the right approach from the very top down to ensure the best possible chance.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine appointed Alan Pardew. They didn't think 'we want to be good again so lets throw money at someone that has won something with a big club' because it just doesn't work. You had players like Enrique laughably saying that Saudi Sportswashing Machine would never challenge for a place in the top 6 again...and they are definitely going to finish above Liverpool. The appointed the right man for the work that needed doing, based on the approach they were going to take. Signing some 'big name' to work with largely unproven players from the French league would likely have ended completely in tears, because this big name is used to working with proven players, managing the big egos to the high expectations. Their skill set wouldn't be in extracting greater performances from a perceived weaker squad.

And there are so many examples like this. AVB was given a chance at Porto after one season at Academica. Numerous coaches get given a chance on the continent so why can't we do the same thing? We just have to make sure we get the appointment right. Milan did well with Allegri. Inter didn't with thier manager, but he had success because he employed a very particular tactical system at his old club that Inter didn't have the players for. The directors should have looked at what made him successful and judged whether he would be able to replicate that success with them.

We don't need a 'big name'. Almost nothing about us suggests that we need a big name. If we had a squad on a par with United and City, then I'd say we need a big name. We'd need someone used to giving that bit extra to the top players. But that's not where we are. We need someone proven in making players over perform because we have a lack of resources with our nearest competitors. An international coach who benefits from a consistent strategy from the lowest youth level upwards to provide him with world class players isn't what we need. A guy who has won titles isn't necessarily what we need. It might work, but it's no guarantee. He isn't going to win us titles just because he has done it at a place where he had more money. There's so many examples of managers that are successful at one club and not so much at the next because the circumstances are different. There aren't too many managers that have a track record of going from club to club, collecting trophies wherever they go. Mourinho is one of the exceptions, a managerial freak that was put on the earth to do this.

People say we should 'take a punt' on Rodgers because it isn't actually taking a punt at all. It's getting hold of one of the brightest young coaches in the game and letting him do his thing. What do we need? What's going to make us over perform in spite of our wage cap and more limited transfer funds? It's going to be a system that makes the players function better as a collective than as individuals, because we are never going to have individually the best squad.

And why exactly would Rodgers fail? What exactly can be held against him? The fact that he's never had the chance before? Means bugger all. Avram Grant took Chelsea to a CL final but World Cup winner Scolari failed with them. It's about the circumstances and whether the manager is right for the club. Rodgers has shown he can make inferior players play the way he wants, so he can almost certainly get our players playing that way. He manages his squad well, he rotates, he's tactically aware, he has modern ideas that give him an edge. He has worked at a big club before, under the best manager in the world, and will have seen there how to handle big name players. But it's not as if 'big name players' are that much different from any other people anyway. They are footballers and will do the job they are told to do unless the manager is seriously clueless, which Rodgers clearly isn't.

He is successful playing a style that will suit us, so what's the problem? Why wouldn't he be a success with us? I haven't really heard one convincing argument against him, except for the fact that he has never done it before. But I don't really know how that prohibits him. Maybe if he had gotten his success playing a system that meant his players didn't see much of the ball, and that it may be hard to adapt to a bigger club where they have more possession. But he is already suited to playing the possession game! He's a knowledge sponge, and has studied all over the world, but hasn't copied, he has taken ideas and mixed them with his own ideas and identity. We need to get hold of someone like this to get ahead of the curve, to give us that edge.

The argument that you need someone proven further doesn't hold up when you consider all the managers in this league. SAF had 'only done it in Scotland'. Mancini had 'only done it because of the Italian scandal'. Wenger was a nobody from Japan. Pardew was a failure at West Ham. Harry has one cup in 30 years of management. Di Matteo was sacked from West Brom. Moyes came from Preston. Dalglish has had just as much failure as success since leaving Liverpool the first time. Jol failed at Spurs. Hodgson failed at Liverpool. O'Neil has never had a big job. Neither has Rodgers. Neither has Lambert. Pulis plays boring football. McCleish could well have two relegations in 2 years. Hughes failed at Emirates Marketing Project. Martinez has never had a big job. Neither has Coyle. Kean is hated by his own fans. And Connor is leaving.

That's every manager in this league. Not one of them has been a proven top level success where ever they have gone. Because it doesn't exist. Of the successful ones there, they are the ones that suited the club and had the favourable circumstances and environment to make them successful. SAF, (maybe Mancini), Wenger, Pardew, Redknapp, Moyes, Jol (doing as well as can be expected), Hodgson, Rogers, Lambert, Pulis, Martinez.

The above are the successful ones. Again, none of them 'proven' big managerial names before hand, but they were right for the club. Even less successful ones, RDM is unproven but may win the CL, Dalglish has won the league with 2 different clubs, O'Neil got Villa 3 top 6 finishes, McCleish has won a cup, Hughes could well keep QPR up and Coyle has shown great promise with Bolton playing good football but have been unlucky with injuries.

Abroad, there is no coach that has been successful everywhere, except for Mourinho. Ancelotti would have been, but may not win the league with PSG and all their money. Again, it is all about the manager being right for the club. If a big name has had success somewhere else, maybe they would be a success with us, but you would need to show they have the same sort of circumstances here to be successful, or they have shown a particular aptitude for adaptability so they can do something else with us. But right now, a guy like Rodgers seems right for us. I haven't heard any compelling reason as to why he wouldn't be. Definitely 'worth a punt'.

 

[milo]

The thing with these 'we must appoint a big name' approaches is that it can just as easily fail. So many coaches have initial success in their first couple of roles, but then spend the rest of their careers aimlessly floating around from one job to the next. A lot of the time, the main reason they had success in the first place was because they had a favourable set of circumstances at a club which allowed them to do so. Success doesn't just come with appointing a manager who has won something before and watching it happen. It's about having the right circumstances, the right approach from the very top down to ensure the best possible chance.

I agree with this point and think that the big failing that we have had with out managerial appointments in the past is that there has been little forward thinking. Sacking managers mid-season is pretty much a guarantee of long term failure. I would like to see us adopt a strategy where managers where given support and backing for at least a season at a time. If a manager does not have the support of the board, then they should do away with them at the end of the season and give the new man enough time to get the players in that they want and organise pre-season as they want it. Sacking managers mid-season either leaves you scraping around unwanted manager or costing you a brick load of money to buy out a contract.

 

[milo]

Vilanova named as Pep's successor. That how you do it Levy.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Vilanova named as Pep's successor. That how you do it Levy.

Redknapp's successor is currently employed by another club or country (unless it's van Gaal, Capello or AVB).

 

[Modric THFC]

Every time a Tottenham manager fails we go out and bring in someone with the qualities the old manager didn't have, in an attempt to fix what's wrong. We go for polar opposites every time Santini -> Jol -> Ramos -> Redknapp.
I've no doubt our next manager will be a tactician/disciplinarian like Santini and Ramos. But these manager never work at Tottenham for whatever reason. And I feel we'd be better off going for a man manager like Jol or Redknapp.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Every time a Tottenham manager fails we go out and bring in someone with the qualities the old manager didn't have, in an attempt to fix what's wrong. We go for polar opposites every time Santini -> Jol -> Ramos -> Redknapp.
I've no doubt our next manager will be a tactician/disciplinarian like Santini and Ramos. But these manager never work at Tottenham for whatever reason. And I feel we'd be better off going for a man manager like Jol or Redknapp.

Santini didn't work because of the language and because he was too defensive, and he left too early anyway under a cloud. Ramos didn't work because of the language and because we'd sold our 2 best strikers who worked great in a partnership and left him with 2 strikers that couldn't play together plus a Man United youth teamer. He had no chance to implement any kind of system.

I don't think those examples show that a tactical man wouldn't work.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Santini didn't work because of the language and because he was too defensive, and he left too early anyway under a cloud. Ramos didn't work because of the language and because we'd sold our 2 best strikers who worked great in a partnership and left him with 2 strikers that couldn't play together plus a Man United youth teamer. He had no chance to implement any kind of system.

I don't think those examples show that a tactical man wouldn't work.

I also think with the core of our team now being players like vdV and Modric, the balances has shifted towards players who will thrive under a more intelligent manager who will push them, rather than players who like to be comfortable.

 

[Modric THFC]

Santini didn't work because of the language and because he was too defensive, and he left too early anyway under a cloud. Ramos didn't work because of the language and because we'd sold our 2 best strikers who worked great in a partnership and left him with 2 strikers that couldn't play together plus a Man United youth teamer. He had no chance to implement any kind of system.

I don't think those examples show that a tactical man wouldn't work.

I can't see any manager at Tottenham being given the time to build something at Tottenham. No chance a manager would be allowed a few mid table finishes.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I can't see any manager at Tottenham being given the time to build something at Tottenham. No chance a manager would be allowed a few mid table finishes.

We don't need time to build anything. We've got 90% of the players we need. We just need a manager who is capable tactically and who can instill a winning mentality.

The only reason we'll need to build is if we appoint an underwhelming manager and Modric, Bale and Rafa all jump ship.

 

[Modric THFC]

]We don't need time to build anything.[/B] We've got 90% of the players we need. We just need a manager who is capable tactically and who can instill a winning mentality.

The only reason we'll need to build is if we appoint an underwhelming manager and Modric, Bale and Rafa all jump ship.

The midfield is fine. Every other area of the team needs sorting out.

 

[Fuego]

The midfield is fine. Every other area of the team needs sorting out.

Well, quite often we were left without being able to bring on an attack minded CM to score goals. I don't think Harry played Sandro, Parker, Modric and Livermore in midfield 3s against teams like Sunderland because he wanted 2 DMs and a deep playmaker in the middle of the pitch.

Assuming GDS goes, we're left with VDV and Kranj as the only players that are really suited to playing in a 4-4-1-1 behind the striker. Falque tried it in the Europa league and looked quite good, but the standard of team we were against makes it hard to judge how well that'd carry over. Hudds is probably the most likely CM that we have when it comes to scoring goals.

As far as the flanks go, Lennon and Bale are excellent 1st team options, Peinaar is good backup for the left flank (although with Kranj, who is somehow our cover for the player off the striker, the right wing, the left wing and sometimes CM although CM is a last resort rather than a manager ever wanting him to play there.), Rose can cover for left wing too, Townsend might be a squad player next year, but I don't know about that... Falque can play on the wings too, as can GDS if he doesn't go.


I'm assuming Jenas and Bentley are going.


We definitely have the majority of the midfield covered, but I'm not sure the new manager won't want to maybe get a little bit more cover in there or a few different options.


This post is based around the assumption that the next manager will go with 4-4-1-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 (with one advanced midfielder option for VDV) or another formation that uses a lot of midfield players. If the next manager doesn't use a formation that is so focused around the midfield, they might be happy.


------


Obviously, replacing Ade is priority #1 and making sure we have enough quality CBs is priority #2, but we aren't too shabby everywhere else.

GK (covered for now, although obviously everyone is getting 1 year older, Gomes wants to go.)

RB and LB: Walker, BAE, Naughton, Charlie (as long as he doesn't get sold, as that quote about a reasonable price makes me fear), Rose (left winger as left back cover under a new manager?)....


CBs: We have Caulker coming back, but CB is a messy area for us, whoever the manager is will have to decide what happens there. (We were looking at a good one or two though.)


Strikers: A complete fudging mess. Needs serious attention.




So yes, the midfield does look good compared to that. But if that goal scoring midfielder for Athletico (the one trying to break into the Spain squad) becomes available or something, a new guy might want to grab someone like that. We've really missed that option all season.



This is all assuming Modric and Bale stay too, else the midfield will need to be looked at.




The really strange thing is, when the August transfer window closed, we had a strong squad. We did lack cover for Ade and a few other types of players, but it was a good squad. So there shouldn't be this much of an issue.

 

[Fuego]

Has Paolo Di Canio been mentioned in this thread yet?

Not as a manager for Spurs, but because this is the thread we're using to discuss all managers, Guardiola or whoever, despite them not having a chance of coming to Spurs.


He has done extremely well, but his interviews are more like fan kneejerk reactions than the interviews managers normally give.


He beat Wigan in the cup with his League 2 side, he got Swindon promoted as champions... But a couple of games ago, he had a 5 minute rant when his team lost (despite them still having a huge lead over second place), he said he'd get rid of a few players and that he wanted to get rid of the loser mentality and so on... (http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,,16509_7681843,00.html - That rant.)

He has a very unique style of management.