Mousa Dembele

[Gazzasrightboot]

It's astonishing that despite his man of the match performance in Saturday's game some posters still steadfastly cling on to the view that
he is not good enough for us or he doesn't fit Poch's system despite the fact that he gets plenty of game time and our manager ruthlessly culls players who do not fit into his plans. unbelievably we have posters blaming him for our lack of goals on Saturday! When every other opinion outside our club said he was outstanding. Where's the open mind? He has become the new Dawson . I am sure Poch values Dembele far more than the posters on here.

I'm in violent agreement with you on this. What i find quite interesting is that people think because he is not the first name on the team sheet, we should therefore get rid. There are not many better backup options than Dembele in a number of positions, and his ability to retain the ball will prove very useful for us in a number of different situations. I would dare say that he has the best retention of the ball than anyone in our squad. So yes, he does sometimes hold on to the ball too long but he doesn't needlessly give it away like some of our other midfielders and, what is more, he's f-ing strong.

It looks like Poch is trying to solve the conundrum as to the best position to play him to get the best out of him, but I'd argue that if we were playing any of the top teams away, he would be a great option alongside Dier to make us really inpenetrable. Equally he could play as part of the front 4 in holding up the ball like he did when he was playing earlier in the season.

We do seem to need something to complain about as supporters. Perhaps we should have just kept Capoue or Paulinho to take the heat from the other players!

 

[harr1984]

Headline sensationalises the quotes there and gives off the wrong impression of what's being said there 'Dembele Demands talks with Manager' when the quotes just say he and Poch need to work out where he fits best

Absolutely. Interesting on how he sees his best position varies on the opposition, and he doesn't seem to mind playing on the right.

If not good enough to be in our strongest we couldn't hope for a better backup player....

 

[milo]

It's astonishing that despite his man of the match performance in Saturday's game some posters still steadfastly cling on to the view that he is not good enough for us or he doesn't fit Poch's system despite the fact that he gets plenty of game time and our manager ruthlessly culls players who do not fit into his plans. unbelievably we have posters blaming him for our lack of goals on Saturday! When every other opinion outside our club said he was outstanding. Where's the open mind? He has become the new Dawson . I am sure Poch values Dembele far more than the posters on here.

Out of interest, do you see Dembele as a starter when everyone is fit and if so, at whose expense?

 

[milo]

I'm in violent agreement with you on this. What i find quite interesting is that people think because he is not the first name on the team sheet, we should therefore get rid. There are not many better backup options than Dembele in a number of positions, and his ability to retain the ball will prove very useful for us in a number of different situations. I would dare say that he has the best retention of the ball than anyone in our squad. So yes, he does sometimes hold on to the ball too long but he doesn't needlessly give it away like some of our other midfielders and, what is more, he's f-ing strong.

It looks like Poch is trying to solve the conundrum as to the best position to play him to get the best out of him, but I'd argue that if we were playing any of the top teams away, he would be a great option alongside Dier to make us really inpenetrable. Equally he could play as part of the front 4 in holding up the ball like he did when he was playing earlier in the season.

We do seem to need something to complain about as supporters. Perhaps we should have just kept Capoue or Paulinho to take the heat from the other players!

I don't think many people do think that. What I am hearing more of is people saying that they are happy if Dembele is willing to play a squad role but could understand it if he wanted more than that.

I agree with you by the way that Dembele would get plenty of games over the season if he is willing to be cover/rotation for a number of positions.

 

[Aldo]

 

[Robspur12]

Out of interest, do you see Dembele as a starter when everyone is fit and if so, at whose expense?

There is no black or white answer to this. There are some games where we know we are going to face a big physical challenge. In those games in particular. I feel much more confident if his name is on the team sheet. In any case in the three behind Kane, Eriksen aside it's not like any player has got any of these positions sewn up. It should be down to who is performing the most consistently at the time, as well as whose skill set most matches the requirements of the game.

 

[thfcsteff]

Maybe this is my bias showing, but I'd rather have Dembele than Wanyama because of his versatility.

Just read the later posts so will sort of incorporate those here...I think skill wise, Dembele is superior to Wanyama. But for what Poch appears to want, versus what Poch appears to have coming through the ranks, Wanyama would make more sense. If Dembele was a Bergkamp or Zola, yes, build a team to suit the prodigious talent. But there are, for me anyway, several factors which play in...his injury record is one, his reluctance to shoot is another, his lack of speed plays against him in this set-up and his consistency another again. He has the tools, I am just not sure they have ever been used fully. Perhaps it would be fair to say he has not been played as far forward as he would like in his Spurs career, thus he has not been given the chance to shine. But I look at the options we have in the front three behind Kane. Lamela/Eriksen/Chadli/Clinton/Mason and Townsend. I would certainly start him over Townsend and possibly Clinton right now (until he is fully settled) but all the others get in ahead of him right now. When Pritchard is fit he will be in contention, again Dembele gets the nod for now but once Pritchard is integrated he suits our style more. Nathan Oduwa is tearing up Rangers and might yet come back and prove a major asset, whilst even though he is only 16, Marcus Edwards really does look like a phenomenal prospect.

Dembele will ALWAYS get my undivided support in our shirt, but I do believe that for what Poch wants and what Poch is doing, he will eventually sold. Just my opinion of course mate.

EDIT: I cannot believe I forgot to put Son in there. Absurd on my part (out of sight out of mind???). He is a vital piece of Poch's jigsaw.

 

[milo]

There is no black or white answer to this. There are some games where we know we are going to face a big physical challenge. In those games in particular. I feel much more confident if his name is on the team sheet. In any case in the three behind Kane, Eriksen aside it's not like any player has got any of these positions sewn up. It should be down to who is performing the most consistently at the time, as well as whose skill set most matches the requirements of the game.

On form (and if fit) I think that Lamela, Eriksen and Son are first choice behind Kane.

If you are saying that Dembele can do a job in some game, then I do not think that there is much between what you are saying and everyone else. It is just a question of emphasis and whether or not we have questioned if Dembele will be happy with such a role.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I don't think many people do think that. What I am hearing more of is people saying that they are happy if Dembele is willing to play a squad role but could understand it if he wanted more than that.

I agree with you by the way that Dembele would get plenty of games over the season if he is willing to be cover/rotation for a number of positions.

OK, I must be getting too sensitive in my old age as I've been thinking that some just don't think he will ever be "good enough" for us.

 

[milo]

OK, I must be getting too sensitive in my old age as I've been thinking that some just don't think he will ever be "good enough" for us.

I haven't seen anyone say that, I would summarise it thus. Some are questioning him holding onto the ball too long and unwillingness to shoot. I think that most recognise that he is a good option to have in the squad. Some are questioning whether he will be happy with that. There is some speculation whether he has a long term future with us given his age and Poch's preference for passers.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

Just read the later posts so will sort of incorporate those here...I think skill wise, Dembele is superior to Wanyama. But for what Poch appears to want, versus what Poch appears to have coming through the ranks, Wanyama would make more sense. If Dembele was a Bergkamp or Zola, yes, build a team to suit the prodigious talent. But there are, for me anyway, several factors which play in...his injury record is one, his reluctance to shoot is another, his lack of speed plays against him in this set-up and his consistency another again. He has the tools, I am just not sure they have ever been used fully. Perhaps it would be fair to say he has not been played as far forward as he would like in his Spurs career, thus he has not been given the chance to shine. But I look at the options we have in the front three behind Kane. Lamela/Eriksen/Chadli/Clinton/Mason and Townsend. I would certainly start him over Townsend and possibly Clinton right now (until he is fully settled) but all the others get in ahead of him right now. When Pritchard is fit he will be in contention, again Dembele gets the nod for now but once Pritchard is integrated he suits our style more. Nathan Oduwa is tearing up Rangers and might yet come back and prove a major asset, whilst even though he is only 16, Marcus Edwards really does look like a phenomenal prospect.

Dembele will ALWAYS get my undivided support in our shirt, but I do believe that for what Poch wants and what Poch is doing, he will eventually sold. Just my opinion of course mate.

I of course respect your opinion, and would also agree that perhaps if Pritchard, Oduwa and Edwards make an impact in the next couple of seasons then his appearances may reduce but I don't think we are there yet. And, yes, Lamela et al would probably get in ahead of Dembele in the front 3, but they're not all going to be firing on all cylinders all of the time, and will have their own injuries. I think Dembele would be utilised more than Wanyama over a season on the basis that as well as being able to be Dier's replacement in the team, he is also able to fill a number of other positions. Wanyama would effectively play in only Dier's position. Sure we could move Dier into central defence, but then one of Alderweireld or Vertonghen would move.

I just think for the fee, Wanyama would be a bit of a waste given how well Dier has performed there.

What is interesting is that Dembele is saying that it has taken a year for the team to adapt to Poch's ways. I think this is showing in his performances thus far this season and in a number of others so our "traditional" views on players are being challenged. Long may this continue so long as it only works one way!!

 

[parklane1]

I haven't seen anyone say that, I would summarise it thus. Some are questioning him holding onto the ball too long and unwillingness to shoot. I think that most recognise that he is a good option to have in the squad. Some are questioning whether he will be happy with that. There is some speculation whether he has a long term future with us given his age and Poch's preference for passers.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I haven't seen anyone say that, I would summarise it thus. Some are questioning him holding onto the ball too long and unwillingness to shoot. I think that most recognise that he is a good option to have in the squad. Some are questioning whether he will be happy with that. There is some speculation whether he has a long term future with us given his age and Poch's preference for passers.

If that's the case then fair enough. I think that there is a long term future for him with us because of his versatility and I think Poch has shown that he has faith in Dembele by utilising him as much as he has this season, despite the injuries. Opinions eh???

 

[milo]

If that's the case then fair enough. I think that there is a long term future for him with us because of his versatility and I think Poch has shown that he has faith in Dembele by utilising him as much as he has this season, despite the injuries. Opinions eh???

How involved has Dembele been under Poch? Most of his games have come at the expense of Lamela, which until recently has counted for a lot, even Townsend has been preferred to Lamela on occasions.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Out of interest, do you see Dembele as a starter when everyone is fit and if so, at whose expense?

An alternative question: if Dembele was producing MOM or high level performances week in and out, would you keep him out the side? The only problem I have with the more 'reserved' view of Dembele is its based on historic performances rather than his performances this season. Which is fair enough, what else are going to judge upon. However, I hope people will ultimately judge him on what he does now and not his past, as I think Poch has a vision for him, where he wants him to be, and so far so good this season!

As to where I would play Dembele and who for. I would consider playing him on thr right wing as he was at the start of the season. This can be in cup games until he proves himself. Alternatively, if he performs as well as he did against pool, he can play in the middle.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

How involved has Dembele been under Poch? Most of his games have come at the expense of Lamela, which until recently has counted for a lot, even Townsend has been preferred to Lamela on occasions.

Good question. but I would say instead of looking at who he has replaced, you look at his performances which have been quite good. To drop him after a MoM performance would be harsh and goes against my view of how Poch runs the team. Now yes, he's benefited from Bentaleb being off form, Mason being injured, Lamela coming back late from Copa America, Son being injured etc.... but he's taken his chance with aplomb.

He has not been a part of our most successful games this season, but in the games that he has played, he has played an important part.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

Great minds @SpurMeUp !

 

[ozza]

Like others I was impressed with Dembele vs. Liverpool. At the moment, however, I can't see him retaining one of two CM-spots with the Alli/Dier-partnership starting to look a bit special and Mason and Bentaleb soon back in play.

Despite having the build of a classic DM I've always seen Dembele as more of a central attacking mid, but IMO we need someone with a bit more vision in this area, so Eriksen and Lamela should own this spot. However, as Son and Chadli is out of business for a while, I'm hopeful we will see Dembele more in an wide attacking position in the coming weeks. Although his dribbling to me seems to be better in the centre of the pitch, he could be a real threat to any opposition if he can learn to pull off his tricks and swerves in the wide areas and, crucially, pick the right moments to cross and the right moments to shoot (that's a big if though).

Also, as Poch is trying to work out his best position, I wonder if we'll ever see him deputising for Kane as a striker this season. Our lack of strikers means it's not entirely unrealistic, at least not in EL. I think he's an exciting option, with his mix of physique and skill he could be a nightmare for CBs on a good day.

Anyway, the Liverpool match reminded me of why I have a soft spot for Mousa. He can be frustrating as hell, but when things click and he's bossing around the midfield he's an absolute joy to watch. Hopefully Poch can work out how to best use him and we haven't seen the best of him yet. In any case I think at the very least he is a good squad player for us.

Also: my first post here. Hi guys! Be gentle with me.

 

[milo]

@Gazzasrightboot @SpurMeUp I would certainly play him on Thursday. I would not pick him in central midfield for the next league game because I do not think that his performance against Liverpool was better than the best Dier performances this season and I think a Dembele/Dier pairing is too defensive, particularly against Bournemouth.

 

[milo]

Like others I was impressed with Dembele vs. Liverpool. At the moment, however, I can't see him retaining one of two CM-spots with the Alli/Dier-partnership starting to look a bit special and Mason and Bentaleb soon back in play.

Despite having the build of a classic DM I've always seen Dembele as more of a central attacking mid, but IMO we need someone with a bit more vision in this area, so Eriksen and Lamela should own this spot. However, as Son and Chadli is out of business for a while, I'm hopeful we will see Dembele more in an wide attacking position in the coming weeks. Although his dribbling to me seems to be better in the centre of the pitch, he could be a real threat to any opposition if he can learn to pull off his tricks and swerves in the wide areas and, crucially, pick the right moments to cross and the right moments to shoot (that's a big if though).

Also, as Poch is trying to work out his best position, I wonder if we'll ever see him deputising for Kane as a striker this season. Our lack of strikers means it's not entirely unrealistic, at least not in EL. I think he's an exciting option, with his mix of physique and skill he could be a nightmare for CBs on a good day.

Anyway, the Liverpool match reminded me of why I have a soft spot for Mousa. He can be frustrating as hell, but when things click and he's bossing around the midfield he's an absolute joy to watch. Hopefully Poch can work out how to best use him and we haven't seen the best of him yet. In any case I think at the very least he is a good squad player for us.

Also: my first post here. Hi guys! Be gentle with me.

Welcome to the board @ozza - a great opening post