Mousa Dembele

[Millsy_Yiddo]

i think it may be the options he has to pass to helped in that respect? We've improved in an attacking sense since the AVB days IMO.

The main reason I kept going on about him not releasing the ball at the right times is that every time he played along with Bale the following happened.

Dembele picks ball up in midfield, does something fancy/impressive to beat man
Bale starts run in behind full-back, gap appears between centre back and full back. Perfect through ball is on.
Dembele looks up, sees pass
Dembele turns complete opposite way of pass
Dembele goes back and beats man six more times
Dembele passes the ball square to Kyle Walker
Opposition have all 10 men behind ball

The beating the man 6 times stuff is exaggerated (a little!) to make my point, but basically the above (replace Bale with any other player in our team) was my problem with him.

In the same situation now, he releases the ball.

 

[LutonSpurs]

This is interesting. Everyone agrees he is playing better and everyone also agrees that part of this is a change in the way he plays along with improved form. What he has achieved by learning to get in to space better and passing earlier and forward is a big big deal and could not have been predicted. With that in mind, past criticisms are justified and current praise is justified. Therefore the calling out people for critcising him in the past and praising him now is silly because that is exactly right, he deserved to be called a player who was a few attributes short of being brilliant and now he is start to show those attributes and can be called brilliant.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

This is interesting. Everyone agrees he is playing better and everyone also agrees that part of this is a change in the way he plays along with improved form. What he has achieved by learning to get in to space better and passing earlier and forward is a big big deal and could not have been predicted. With that in mind past criticisms are justified and current praise is justified. Therefore the calling out people for critcising him in the past and praising him now is silly because that is exactly right, he deserved to be called a player who was a few attributes short of being brilliant and now he is start to show those attributes and can be called brilliant.

Exactly.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

This is interesting. Everyone agrees he is playing better and everyone also agrees that part of this is a change in the way he plays along with improved form. What he has achieved by learning to get in to space better and passing earlier and forward is a big big deal and could not have been predicted. With that in mind, past criticisms are justified and current praise is justified. Therefore the calling out people for critcising him in the past and praising him now is silly because that is exactly right, he deserved to be called a player who was a few attributes short of being brilliant and now he is start to show those attributes and can be called brilliant.

You see this isn't it, no. I'm arguing (again) that the previous criticism was harsh and that he was always worthy of a place in the side, bar one period under AVB when everyone was poor. Unless I'm mistaken that's not the views of a lot of others? There just seems to be a generally assumed position on here that he was poor and ponderous before this season only (as you and Millsy have mentioned directly above), this is what I disagree with and the viewpoint I'm challenging, for me he's been better than that previously.

Overall (includes his time alongside Sandro) he has been a 7 to 8 out of 10 player up until this season, where he's raised it to a 9 sort of level. I think the 7/8 out of 10 rating is the one most seem to disagree with on here.

 

[LutonSpurs]

You see this isn't it, no. I'm arguing (again) that the previous criticism was harsh and that he was always worthy of a place in the side, bar one period under AVB when everyone was poor. Unless I'm mistaken that's not the views of a lot of others? There just seems to be a generally assumed position on here that he was poor and ponderous before this season only (as you and Millsy have mentioned directly above), this is what I disagree with and the viewpoint I'm challenging, for me he's been better than that previously.

Overall (includes his time alongside Sandro) he has been a 7 to 8 out of 10 player up until this season, where he's raised it to a 9 sort of level. I think the 7/8 out of 10 rating is the one most seem to disagree with on here.

I think you may be mistaken Gazza, most of us saw a player who had the physical attributes and ability to be this seasons player but felt he need to adjust mentally and be taught to think quicker. Since he joined Spurs until this season he consistently made the standing tackle a thing of beauty, he dribbled beautifully BUT he rarely released the ball early, passed forwards or played the ball on to a run of a player. He rarely took a shot when the opportunity came, and would not use his right foot. This has changed and this is what was discussed from my memory.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Does it matter who thought what a while back???

No one I know ever thought Kane would be the player he is now... I admit I was wrong and I'll hold my hand out for a slap.

We can always be wrong and sometimes we can be right too. I've been a big critic of lamella but this season he has been good to outstanding (game by game). Hey I was wrong

I said many items that Moussa had it in him to be the best player in the league but didn't appear to believe it hinself. No one disagreed with that so clearly people saw the ability and some were naturally frustrated.

Right now the way he is playing in football terms is like a thing of beauty. I find it crazy that in the teams of the season people are putting Barkley in for example... But he is flavour of the month and the longer a player like Moussa goes under the "press radar" the better. The only game he was highlighted before in was West Brom and the basically tried to assassinate him!!!!

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Well no it doesn't matter what people thought previously, but this is a message board after all and we need something to talk about! I was just picking up on comments that I thought were harsh.

By the way I was completely wrong about Kane, I just didn't see it at all in him at the start, but I held my hands up to that one a long time ago. Some posters always thought he'd make it and always saw something in him, everyone sees different things in different players.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Well no it doesn't matter what people thought previously, but this is a message board after all and we need something to talk about! I was just picking up on comments that I thought were harsh. Fair comment ands e should ways back our players where possible (although I really struggle with Chadli as there should be so much more form him)

By the way I was completely wrong about Kane, I just didn't see it at all in him at the start, but I held my hands up to that one a long time ago. Some posters always thought he'd make it and always saw something in him, everyone sees different things in different players. Agreed although I dont remember anyone being positive early days (4 years ago)

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Hang on. 6 or 7 decent games this season invalidates about 60 crap ones before that? I don't get it. Let's wait until he plays consistently at a high level before singing the guys praises. Yes he has been good, but for about a quarter of a season. Every one wants to see him do well and he should with his sublime talents and physical presence.

 

[milo]

Well no it doesn't matter what people thought previously, but this is a message board after all and we need something to talk about! I was just picking up on comments that I thought were harsh.

By the way I was completely wrong about Kane, I just didn't see it at all in him at the start, but I held my hands up to that one a long time ago. Some posters always thought he'd make it and always saw something in him, everyone sees different things in different players.

I think that if you are going to pick up on comments that you feel were harsh, I think that you should respond to specific comments rather than put words in people's mouths.

 

[Grays_1890]

Hang on. 6 or 7 decent games this season invalidates about 60 crap ones before that? I don't get it. Let's wait until he plays consistently at a high level before singing the guys praises. Yes he has been good, but for about a quarter of a season. Every one wants to see him do well and he should with his sublime talents and physical presence.

You are a happy soul

 

[RunTMC]

I'd love to know @Gutter Boy opinion now as he wasn't a fan due to the speed at which he delayed attacks

To be fair to GB he has since changed his tune and reckons he's deserving of a starting place

 

[Bedfordspurs]

To be fair to GB he has since changed his tune and reckons he's deserving of a starting place

I haven't seen that bit fair play if so

 

[parklane1]

This is interesting. Everyone agrees he is playing better and everyone also agrees that part of this is a change in the way he plays along with improved form. What he has achieved by learning to get in to space better and passing earlier and forward is a big big deal and could not have been predicted. With that in mind, past criticisms are justified and current praise is justified. Therefore the calling out people for critcising him in the past and praising him now is silly because that is exactly right, he deserved to be called a player who was a few attributes short of being brilliant and now he is start to show those attributes and can be called brilliant.

Sense at last. Most fans I know who were unsure about him had nothing to do with his talent ( or lack of it), he has ability and again most fans I know would have ( did do) admit that. What some were saying ( including me) was that in their opinion he more often then not failed to use that ability to the max, now some may disagree with that being the case ( and they do/did) but that does not justify calling out people for having that opinion.(imo)

 

[StephenH]

Sense at last. Most fans I know who were unsure about him had nothing to do with his talent ( or lack of it), he has ability and again most fans I know would have ( did do) admit that. What some were saying ( including me) was that in their opinion he more often then not failed to use that ability to the max, now some may disagree with that being the case ( and they do/did) but that does not justify calling out people for having that opinion.(imo)

I was not convinced about Modric for a year or so. We have to be allowed to express our opinions no matter how stupid they are or may seem.

 

[parklane1]

I was not convinced about Modric for a year or so. We have to be allowed to express our opinions no matter how stupid they are or may seem.

Indeed there is nothing wrong with voicing a opinion ( after all they are like arseholes we all have one), never understood those who like to say " I told you so" ( unless its done in jest).

 

[Raziel]

Hang on. 6 or 7 decent games this season invalidates about 60 crap ones before that? I don't get it. Let's wait until he plays consistently at a high level before singing the guys praises. Yes he has been good, but for about a quarter of a season. Every one wants to see him do well and he should with his sublime talents and physical presence.

Yes .. because in those games, he has made himself the most (or damn close to) valuable player on pitch for us, he's addressed the vast majority of the complaints made against him (don't think anyone every really doubted his overall ability).

The big questions around Dembele were decision making, and that (in my opinion) was why he had so many doubters, players don't often suddenly improve on their decision making.

He has, is he settled, is it the system, did Poch coach him? who knows ..

But he's made himself a better player, we can ask for consistency going forward, but in my opinion the change has been sufficient to nullify last season's issues.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The main reason I kept going on about him not releasing the ball at the right times is that every time he played along with Bale the following happened.

Dembele picks ball up in midfield, does something fancy/impressive to beat man
Bale starts run in behind full-back, gap appears between centre back and full back. Perfect through ball is on.
Dembele looks up, sees pass
Dembele turns complete opposite way of pass
Dembele goes back and beats man six more times
Dembele passes the ball square to Kyle Walker
Opposition have all 10 men behind ball

The beating the man 6 times stuff is exaggerated (a little!) to make my point, but basically the above (replace Bale with any other player in our team) was my problem with him.

In the same situation now, he releases the ball.

I guess the question there was whether this was a failing of the player or a player playing the way his manager wanted? It seemed to me that all of our players were guilty of slowing the game down back then and we were a keep possession at all costs type of team.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Hang on. 6 or 7 decent games this season invalidates about 60 crap ones before that? I don't get it. Let's wait until he plays consistently at a high level before singing the guys praises. Yes he has been good, but for about a quarter of a season. Every one wants to see him do well and he should with his sublime talents and physical presence.

I disagree that Dembele has only had 6 or 7 decent games this season. I think he has been consistently good for the whole season and MoTM in 5 or 6 games. I also thought that Dembele generally played well for Pochettino last season. It was only the West Ham 2-2 draw at home where he played badly (and he then lost his place as a result).

 

[Robspur12]

You see this isn't it, no. I'm arguing (again) that the previous criticism was harsh and that he was always worthy of a place in the side, bar one period under AVB when everyone was poor. Unless I'm mistaken that's not the views of a lot of others? There just seems to be a generally assumed position on here that he was poor and ponderous before this season only (as you and Millsy have mentioned directly above), this is what I disagree with and the viewpoint I'm challenging, for me he's been better than that previously.

Overall (includes his time alongside Sandro) he has been a 7 to 8 out of 10 player up until this season, where he's raised it to a 9 sort of level. I think the 7/8 out of 10 rating is the one most seem to disagree with on here.

Totally agree.