Modric - No Longer A Spurs Player

[bigheadburton]

Anyone have any idea what Luka's loyalty bonus might be worth? If he gives it up maybe the deal can be made for a lesser fee. But I have no idea if it is worth in the millions or if we are only talking a couple houndred grands and wouldn't make much different in a big deal as this...

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/72124.html

"The fee for Torres was dependent on what Saudi Sportswashing Machine asked for Carroll," Henry told The Guardian. "The negotiation for us was simply the difference in prices paid by Chelsea and to Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

"Those prices could have been £35 million [for Torres] and £20 million [for Carroll], 40 and 25 or 50 and 35. It was ultimately up to Saudi Sportswashing Machine how much this was all going to cost. They [Saudi Sportswashing Machine] made a hell of a deal. We felt the same way."

Wow. Just..... Wow.

That is possibly the stupidest thing I have ever seen come out of a club, let alone from its board. I hadnt seen that before and am frankly stunned just now.

 

[ArcspacE]

Wow. Just..... Wow.

That is possibly the stupidest thing I have ever seen come out of a club, let alone from its board. I hadnt seen that before and am frankly stunned just now.

Why?

Saudi Sportswashing Machine knew they'd be flush from the Torres deal, knew they needed a replacement and played their cards well. Would imagine something similar with us if we sell Modric

 

[indianspur]

Wow. Just..... Wow.

That is possibly the stupidest thing I have ever seen come out of a club, let alone from its board. I hadnt seen that before and am frankly stunned just now.

maybe just maybe this is what Levy is doing right now

he knows he has to pay 30 mill for Moutinho, and so he wont sell Modric for anything less that 40 mill. If Moutinho were to cost 20 mill, maybe Levy will sell Modric for 30 mill

who knows

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Wow. Just..... Wow.

That is possibly the stupidest thing I have ever seen come out of a club, let alone from its board. I hadnt seen that before and am frankly stunned just now.

If that's the way they do business, it's a wonder they're still in this league. If they were Bolton or Wigwam, they'd be gone and forgotten.

I suppose their logic is/was that they were desperate to get rid of Torres and that any offer was good enough so long as it got them their replacement. It's short-term and short-sighted (and a lot of other things starting with 'short') but that's probably how they lost their position in the Big 4 in the first place.

 

[NorwegianSpursFan]

Knowing Levy, even if porto gave us money to take moutinho off their hands, he'd still demand 40 mill for modric.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Why?

Saudi Sportswashing Machine knew they'd be flush from the Torres deal, knew they needed a replacement and played their cards well. Would imagine something similar with us if we sell Modric

Stupid from Liverpool. Saudi Sportswashing Machine did so well out of it.

And the thing is, what happened was Liverpool managed to strengthen Saudi Sportswashing Machine, who subsequently used the Carroll money to sign Cisse, Cabaye, probably Debuchy etc and use it to finish above them! All round terrible, terrible idea IMO.

I just can't see Levy doing that. I don't think he wants one deal to be linked to another. He wants £40m from Modric because the guy has 4 years on his contract. He wants to get as much as possible because the more money we get, the more players we can sign to keep strengthening.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

maybe just maybe this is what Levy is doing right now

he knows he has to pay 30 mill for Moutinho, and so he wont sell Modric for anything less that 40 mill. If Moutinho were to cost 20 mill, maybe Levy will sell Modric for 30 mill

who knows

Maybe, although seeing the way Levy has operated for 10 years I dont personally think its likely.

I think we have a value in mind, have drawn a line in the sand and thats it. As far as Im aware Moutinho is a fixed cost (release clause) and so we know where we stand on that one. I think this is more about our standing in the game and not getting bullied around.

As you say though, who knows?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

If that's the way they do business, it's a wonder they're still in this league. If they were Bolton or Wigwam, they'd be gone and forgotten.

I suppose their logic is/was that they were desperate to get rid of Torres and that any offer was good enough so long as it got them their replacement. It's short-term and short-sighted (and a lot of other things starting with 'short') but that's probably how they lost their position in the Big 4 in the first place.

Agreed, absolutely bonkers and if were a club not of Liverpools wealth/stature that sort of operation could be fatal

 

[ArcspacE]

Stupid from Liverpool. Saudi Sportswashing Machine did so well out of it.

And the thing is, what happened was Liverpool managed to strengthen Saudi Sportswashing Machine, who subsequently used the Carroll money to sign Cisse, Cabaye, probably Debuchy etc and use it to finish above them! All round terrible, terrible idea IMO.

I just can't see Levy doing that. I don't think he wants one deal to be linked to another. He wants £40m from Modric because the guy has 4 years on his contract. He wants to get as much as possible because the more money we get, the more players we can sign to keep strengthening.

I agree with that but how do you 'conceal' the fact you've just sold a player for massive pessos and you're (desperately) looking to replace him. Any potential seller would know that and price accordingly

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Liverpool effectively forfeited their ability to use that money to strengthen and gave it to Saudi Sportswashing Machine. To them, it was simply money coming in, then straight out, with £15m profit. But that money wasn't going out from Saudi Sportswashing Machine as well - they were able to keep that money, make informed player purchase decisions and strengthen their team with real quality. The way they did that deal pushed Liverpool out of the top 6, let alone the top 4.

 

[GGyid]

not seen this posted yet

Luka Modric has made a grovelling apology to chairman Daniel Levy for going on strike.
Source: Sun

The Croatian playmaker stopped off at Tottenham’s HQ to play down his latest bust-up with Levy before he eventually flew to America for his club’s pre-season tour.

Modric, 26, hoped his no-show at Heathrow on Sunday would force Spurs to push through a deal with Real Madrid. But the tactic infuriated Levy, who wanted to hit him with a £15,000 fine for each day he was on strike.

Boss Andre Villas-Boas said last night: “The club must protect themselves. We have to hold on to our values and rights. Last year Luka behaved professionally. Unfortunately this is the first time he has taken these actions and it is not common professional behaviour.

“Either the clubs interested must now meet our demands regarding his value or the player must continue with his club duties.

“Hopefully this won’t drag on as it doesn’t help Luka or us.”

Modric has already been fined £80,000 after refusing to train last week and Levy has made it clear he can only leave if a club meet his £40million valuation.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

It was a bit of a gamble for Saudi Sportswashing Machine though, they sold their main striker on the last day of the transfer window and weren't able to replace him, had they gone in to freefall again and got relegated I don't think it would have been such a great deal for them (they were mid table at the time not that far above the drop zone).

In hindsight it clearly was an amazing deal for them, but noone knows that at the time. The only thing we knew at that time with any real certainty was that Carrol was not a 35m player and was going to struggle living up to that, the rest (Saudi Sportswashing Machine staying safe of relegation, investing it wisely in the summer and ultimately finishing above Liverpool) not many people were predicting. For example the Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans weren't happy at all with the timing of it and were very concerned about it.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I agree with that but how do you 'conceal' the fact you've just sold a player for massive pessos and you're (desperately) looking to replace him. Any potential seller would know that and price accordingly

I think supply and demand still has an effect.

Let's say we get given for examlple £100m just from some seriously rich billionaire. He says to go out and spend it with no worries. So we identify some targets. We identify a central midfielder, who has certain qualities, experience and has proven himself to a certain level etc, and the market for similar players has been set at something like £10m based on recent transfers.

We could make a bid of say £7m to start off, and the club goes 'no, we want £25m'. We might then increase to £10m. We might then even increase to £12m. We might even then go even further and increase to £15m, because otherwise we lose the competitive advantage that the money gives us. But if the selling club takes the tinkle too much, there will become a tipping point where it simply wouldn't be worth our while to pay the price they are asking, because there are other players in the world who we could get for a lower price. And then it presents the risk to the selling club, they are turning down a potentially very good deal, keeping an unhappy player and forfeiting the opportunity to strengthen because they got too greedy.

I think if it's obvious that we had loads of money, there may be a slight price increase, but it doesn't mean you have to get completely taken to the cleaners (unless you are Liverpool). Look at City, they initially started off paying massive fees but there comes a point where the selling club simply can't demand something too ridiculous because if the player wants to leave and the offer is good, and they try and amp it up even further, they risk losing out all together. They got Dzeko for a reasonable fee for example, and I think we'll see a lot more of that. They want to show the other clubs that just because they have serious backing, they won't be bullied into paying big fees. And once that's established, clubs will realise that they have to be realistic with them if it looks like the best option is to sell.

I understand that Liverpool needed a replacement, but if they knew Torres was going that January, if they sold him for less and spent the money on 3 or 4 players with a week to go, they would be in a far better situation than they are now.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It was a bit of a gamble for Saudi Sportswashing Machine though, they sold their main striker on the last day of the transfer window and weren't able to replace him, had they gone in to freefall again and got relegated I don't think it would have been such a great deal for them (they were mid table at the time not that far above the drop zone).

In hindsight it clearly was an amazing deal for them, but noone knows that at the time. The only thing we knew at that time with any real certainty was that Carrol was not a 35m player and was going to struggle living up to that, the rest (Saudi Sportswashing Machine staying safe of relegation, investing it wisely in the summer and ultimately finishing above Liverpool) not many people were predicting. For example the Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans weren't happy at all with the timing of it and were very concerned about it.

Everything is a risk, and they took the risk that Pardew could keep them up without Carroll...which I'd argue is a much better risk to take than hoping Carroll lives up to a £35m fee. As well considering the rewards would be that they would be able to seriously strengthen when the summer comes around. And with the likes of a poor West Ham, Wolves, Wigan, Birmingham, Blackburn and Bolton, I think it was a fair assessment that they thought they could at least be better than 3 of those.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Yep, but that's just it, it was a big gamble, it's paid off in a big way so fair play. The only reason I mentioned it was because everyone seemed to be talking like it was a no brainer deal, which IMO is with the massive benefit of hindsight.

edit: 30m at the start of Jan = no brainer deal, of course you take it and part re-invest in Jan itself.

30m on 31st Jan at 23:59 = big gamble to finish the season without a decent striker.

 

[jts1882]

I still think it is terrible.

If Chelsea want to pay £50m for Torres, then Liverpool could have got 3 good strikers for that, all of them would have done at least as well as Carroll and at least 2 of them would have ended up doing a lot better. Or, they could have bought 2 strikers and got a good right winger in. Or strengthened any number of other areas.

I get the logic, but I just find it stupid. Yes they got Carroll, they got the deal done, but what then? A player that is nowhere near close to ever being anywhere near £35m is on their books. So he has to be an absolutely rip roaring success, otherwise he's a failure. And what if they want to sell him? They would have to accept massive loss when they could have put that money into other areas of the team.

The deal was a bad one for Liverpool because Carroll didn't fit their system and turned crap. The logic is they got their man and £15m to spend and that doesn't change because they were poor judges of players. They compounded the mistaken choice of Carroll by wasting the £15 million on other players that proved ineffective. Its not the logic that is stupid, its their choice of players that is stupid.

If Carroll had been a success and say Henderson as well, people wouldn't be criticising the logic of the deal. They would probably get praise for ripping Chelsea off on Torres. The logic of a deal can't depend on the outcome. In hindsight we can say they made a crap deal but that can't alter the reasoning behind it.

I'll pose a hypothetical. Say Levy was able to persuade Porto to sell Moutinho for £20m. Should Levy make a £30m deal with Madrid for Modric so he can get bith deals done now or should he still hold out for the £40m at the risk of not getting either deal done?

 

[Rorschach]

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/72124.html

"The fee for Torres was dependent on what Saudi Sportswashing Machine asked for Carroll," Henry told The Guardian. "The negotiation for us was simply the difference in prices paid by Chelsea and to Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

"Those prices could have been £35 million [for Torres] and £20 million [for Carroll], 40 and 25 or 50 and 35. It was ultimately up to Saudi Sportswashing Machine how much this was all going to cost. They [Saudi Sportswashing Machine] made a hell of a deal. We felt the same way."

That is amazing. Makes no sense at all to me to approach a player valuation like that.

 

[billyiddo]

I don't think our insistence on the 40 mil asking price is dependant on the Moutinho deal what so ever - it's down to the fact that ideally we don't want to be selling our best player and if someone wants to buy him then they will have to pay top dollar.

Our plan A is keep Modic - plan B is replace him with Moutinho and get the best price we can in both deals.

If our first choice was to sell Modric then i could see what people are saying about selling him based on the replacments asking price, i wouldn't particularly agree with it but it'd make some sense

 

[BrainOfLevy]

The deal was a bad one for Liverpool because Carroll didn't fit their system and turned crap. The logic is they got their man and £15m to spend and that doesn't change because they were poor judges of players. They compounded the mistaken choice of Carroll by wasting the £15 million on other players that proved ineffective. Its not the logic that is stupid, its their choice of players that is stupid.

If Carroll had been a success and say Henderson as well, people wouldn't be criticising the logic of the deal. They would probably get praise for ripping Chelsea off on Torres. The logic of a deal can't depend on the outcome. In hindsight we can say they made a crap deal but that can't alter the reasoning behind it.

I'll pose a hypothetical. Say Levy was able to persuade Porto to sell Moutinho for £20m. Should Levy make a £30m deal with Madrid for Modric so he can get bith deals done now or should he still hold out for the £40m at the risk of not getting either deal done?

He should absolutely hold out for the price we want for Modric, close to £35m-40m as possible. One player shouldn't depend on the other. £10m less on Modric just because we've got a good deal on Moutinho is £10m less we can also invest into other areas of the team.

I see the logic, but I still think it is stupid. And I think it is important to look at the player choice. It's the whole point of what we are discussing - it's all about choosing the right player otherwise it's a theory that means nothing in practice. They made a bad choice paying that much for unfulfilled potential, and it meant that in the likely event that he didn't live up to the price tag, they have to sell him for a huge loss. If that money was invested more intelligently in other areas of the team, they wouldn't be in that situation.

They got their man, but it was a terrible choice and a terrible way of doing things. If they offered £35m to some club to bring a proven striker in, so that the loss of Torres wasn't felt at all, then I can just about see it. They can look at it like they didn't want to sell Torres, but they had to, and so replaced him with someone proven and got a bit of profit. I still don't think deals should be linked at all, because it means stupid stuff like this happens, but in that case, they got the deal done and would be buying someone proven. Paying that much for potential that was never likely to be fulfilled is just stupid. They've lumbered themselves with a certain massive loss. And there's the fact that no matter how well Carroll played, he would never, ever be worth £35m. And the fact that they strengthened Saudi Sportswashing Machine and gave them the funds to reinvest and help them finish above Liverpool. Because Saudi Sportswashing Machine didn't just send that money straight out again, they used it wisely.