Mathys Tel

[Raziel]

Why are teams not allowed to be physical? What other incidents from the Leeds match am I forgetting that were beyond the laws?

There is a difference between being physical e.g. a strong CF winning duels with CB's or winger (Kudus) capable of physically shaking off defenders, vs. using fouling as a tactic to either break up flow of game (often a combination of you fouling and pretending to be fouled, i.e. a lot of diving which Leeds did as well) and afters, often just that extra follow through or slightly late tackle where often the team being fouled gets an advantage call so fouling team sees little punishment but the players keep taking a hit.

Spurs have lost players, Tel, Deki, Djed (broken jaw), Bentancur, Romero multiple times to this physical brick. Go watch any of our games with a focus on Maddison, Xavi, Kudus (he gets fouled continuously but doesn't go down) or even Marmoush (I swear if you look at his expressions in the Leeds game it's almost a realization of "fudge, I'm not playing for City anymore, I'm not protected")

People like to do the flimflam "back in the day, footballers were real men", yeah back in the day footballers retired at 24 with fudged up injuries. We want to see players like Tel beat his man, show talent, not just get fudging stomped.

 

[revlis]

There is a difference between being physical e.g. a strong CF winning duels with CB's or winger (Kudus) capable of physically shaking off defenders, vs. using fouling as a tactic to either break up flow of game (often a combination of you fouling and pretending to be fouled, i.e. a lot of diving which Leeds did as well) and afters, often just that extra follow through or slightly late tackle where often the team being fouled gets an advantage call so fouling team sees little punishment but the players keep taking a hit.

Spurs have lost players, Tel, Deki, Djed (broken jaw), Bentancur, Romero multiple times to this physical brick. Go watch any of our games with a focus on Maddison, Xavi, Kudus (he gets fouled continuously but doesn't go down) or even Marmoush (I swear if you look at his expressions in the Leeds game it's almost a realization of "fudge, I'm not playing for City anymore, I'm not protected")

People like to do the flimflam "back in the day, footballers were real men", yeah back in the day footballers retired at 24 with fudged up injuries. We want to see players like Tel beat his man, show talent, not just get fudging stomped.

Can you give me specific examples of tackles/challenges that were outside of the rules?

Is there a rule about using fouls to break up play?

 

[Raziel]

Can you give me specific examples of tackles/challenges that were outside of the rules?

Is there a rule about using fouls to break up play?

I'd have to go back to look at game, but can remember Marmoush as I said earlier being fouled and getting nothing called. Again look for patterns, players being fouled in your own half or at half line tend to get a lot less cards than in opposition third, so teams play on that.

A foul is a foul, and cards can be issued for persistent fouling, the issue again is lack of consistency in calls for teams and players. My examples would be David Moyes/Everton, it's a tactic to make the game ugly, they get away with a lot, similarly Matty Cash/VVD/Joelinton get away with brick that would have had Romero given ten game bans.

 

[revlis]

I'd have to go back to look at game, but can remember Marmoush as I said earlier being fouled and getting nothing called. Again look for patterns, players being fouled in your own half or at half line tend to get a lot less cards than in opposition third, so teams play on that.

A foul is a foul, and cards can be issued for persistent fouling, the issue again is lack of consistency in calls for teams and players. My examples would be David Moyes/Everton, it's a tactic to make the game ugly, they get away with a lot, similarly Matty Cash/VVD/Joelinton get away with brick that would have had Romero given ten game bans.

There are absolutely biases amongst refs and players who are able to get away with a lot versus those who get away with nothing. But I just hate this 'woe is me' nonsense that's permeating the fanbase at the moment. Some giant conspiracy against Tottenham Hotspur. It's a movement create by the forever-online crowd, who get sucked into the narratives. Look at this absolute garbage, for example:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Absolutely embarrassing.

That's not to say we don't have legitimate grievances. We've had some awful decisions over the years but name me a club who hasn't? Naturally, the clubs at the top get the rub of the green but no club is immune from referees. There are bad referees and there are worse ones. They'll make mistakes and infuriate us...but pushing this agenda of corruption and conspiracy theory flimflam just makes THFC look fudging stupid.

 

[Muttley]

Why are teams not allowed to be physical? What other incidents from the Leeds match am I forgetting that were beyond the laws?

It's the professional foul that is perhaps the biggest offender. I'd make it automatic yellow and eradicate it from the game quickly. It's breaks up the flow of the game and massively reduces the entertainment as it is stifling the skill.

If you want to find the biggest area to see obvious fouls not given then watch Solanke. He gets into position to receive the ball and the defender will go straight through the back of him every single time. He is perfectly entitled to hold his ground. It is up to the defender to go round him to win the ball, not through him. He is getting fouled a fair chunk of the time but it's OK as Howard Webb runs football now and he thinks it's OK. The laws of the game just simply don't matter to our head of refereeing in this country.

The irony is that when you do see a fantastic tackle like Porro's where he tucked his other leg in and want in cleanly and won the ball, then the yellow comes out. This just shows the inompetence of the PGMOL team in a single moment. They really aren;t up to the task.

 

[glasgowspur]

I'd have to go back to look at game, but can remember Marmoush as I said earlier being fouled and getting nothing called. Again look for patterns, players being fouled in your own half or at half line tend to get a lot less cards than in opposition third, so teams play on that.

A foul is a foul, and cards can be issued for persistent fouling, the issue again is lack of consistency in calls for teams and players. My examples would be David Moyes/Everton, it's a tactic to make the game ugly, they get away with a lot, similarly Matty Cash/VVD/Joelinton get away with brick that would have had Romero given ten game bans.

Re the persistent fouling, it should not be the fouling individual that it is judged on, it should be the fouled individual.
Teams rotate who fouls for example maddison to avoid the card.
Too many fouls per team on an individual and the captain is booked.

 

[revlis]

It's the professional foul that is perhaps the biggest offender. I'd make it automatic yellow and eradicate it from the game quickly. It's breaks up the flow of the game and massively reduces the entertainment as it is stifling the skill.

If you want to find the biggest area to see obvious fouls not given then watch Solanke. He gets into position to receive the ball and the defender will go straight through the back of him every single time. He is perfectly entitled to hold his ground. It is up to the defender to go round him to win the ball, not through him. He is getting fouled a fair chunk of the time but it's OK as Howard Webb runs football now and he thinks it's OK. The laws of the game just simply don't matter to our head of refereeing in this country.

The irony is that when you do see a fantastic tackle like Porro's where he tucked his other leg in and want in cleanly and won the ball, then the yellow comes out. This just shows the inompetence of the PGMOL team in a single moment. They really aren;t up to the task.

I don’t disagree but then you have the other end of the spectrum, like an attacker putting pressure on a defender facing his own goal. One touch on the back, the defender goes down and the ref gives a foul. These are absolutely infuriating, but what do you do? You end up touching the game and the rules so much that people don’t know what is and isn’t a foul. Basically, where we are!

 

[Robbo]

Why are teams not allowed to be physical? What other incidents from the Leeds match am I forgetting that were beyond the laws?

It’s easy, really. Players can be as physical as they like within the laws of the game. If they pass that threshold, the refs should call a foul, and a card if warranted.

Players will always push the boundaries as much as they can. That's why strong, competent and consistent refereeing is so important.

 

[Lost Mango]

Re the persistent fouling, it should not be the fouling individual that it is judged on, it should be the fouled individual.
Teams rotate who fouls for example maddison to avoid the card.
Too many fouls per team on an individual and the captain is booked.

Easy to manage. Either your way and making the captain responsible or do what rugby do, call the captain over and say that there is persistent infringement and the next player to do it again, even if their first offence will be carded.

 

[revlis]

It’s easy, really. Players can be as physical as they like within the laws of the game. If they pass that threshold, the refs should call a foul, and a card if warranted.

Players will always push the boundaries as much as they can. That's why strong, competent and consistent refereeing is so important.

Yep and I agree. Beside the Bogle challenge, I don't remember anything about Leeds or their approach that would be getting into that territory though.

 

[afsoc4life]

It's the professional foul that is perhaps the biggest offender. I'd make it automatic yellow and eradicate it from the game quickly. It's breaks up the flow of the game and massively reduces the entertainment as it is stifling the skill.

If you want to find the biggest area to see obvious fouls not given then watch Solanke. He gets into position to receive the ball and the defender will go straight through the back of him every single time. He is perfectly entitled to hold his ground. It is up to the defender to go round him to win the ball, not through him. He is getting fouled a fair chunk of the time but it's OK as Howard Webb runs football now and he thinks it's OK. The laws of the game just simply don't matter to our head of refereeing in this country.

The irony is that when you do see a fantastic tackle like Porro's where he tucked his other leg in and want in cleanly and won the ball, then the yellow comes out. This just shows the inompetence of the PGMOL team in a single moment. They really aren;t up to the task.

The Solanke one tinkles me off - I get even more tinkled off when fellow fans get on Solanke's back.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Any news at all on his injury and how long he'll be out for?
Sad for him, especially given he was called up to he France squad IIRC

 

[SubZero]

It’s easy, really. Players can be as physical as they like within the laws of the game. If they pass that threshold, the refs should call a foul, and a card if warranted.

Players will always push the boundaries as much as they can. That's why strong, competent and consistent refereeing is so important.

It was very visible against Leeds. The ref needs to set a standard early, and that sets the tone. You could see that the Leeds players suddenly became much more aggressive after the incident and played like they were untouchable, to the point that our players seemed scared to fight for the ball. Especially the first 10 minutes afterwards. Up until then, I thought we looked pretty good, but that shifted the momentum entirely.

 

[billyiddo]

There are absolutely biases amongst refs and players who are able to get away with a lot versus those who get away with nothing. But I just hate this 'woe is me' nonsense that's permeating the fanbase at the moment. Some giant conspiracy against Tottenham Hotspur. It's a movement create by the forever-online crowd, who get sucked into the narratives. Look at this absolute garbage, for example:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Absolutely embarrassing.

That's not to say we don't have legitimate grievances. We've had some awful decisions over the years but name me a club who hasn't? Naturally, the clubs at the top get the rub of the green but no club is immune from referees. There are bad referees and there are worse ones. They'll make mistakes and infuriate us...but pushing this agenda of corruption and conspiracy theory flimflam just makes THFC look fudging stupid.

Arsenal done the same and now get away with murder on a regular basis, which had a huge hand in them winning the title. Have at it i say

 

[Robbo]

It was very visible against Leeds. The ref needs to set a standard early, and that sets the tone. You could see that the Leeds players suddenly became much more aggressive after the incident and played like they were untouchable, to the point that our players seemed scared to fight for the ball. Especially the first 10 minutes afterwards. Up until then, I thought we looked pretty good, but that shifted the momentum entirely.

It's not that hard either; the standard is written in the rules of the game. Just enforce them fairly and consistently.

Doesn't matter if you have to send someone off after 30 seconds, disallow a great goal or nullify thug tactics. That's your job. Do it.

And don't get me started on the whole "doesn’t want to ruin the game" brick. That's exactly what ypu do when you fail to enforce the rules fairly and consistently.

 

[Muttley]

Re the persistent fouling, it should not be the fouling individual that it is judged on, it should be the fouled individual.
Teams rotate who fouls for example maddison to avoid the card.
Too many fouls per team on an individual and the captain is booked.

Yep, that's the rugby way. Eventually, someone is going to get the yellow and sit in the sin bin. Not a bad idea that.

 

[Muttley]

The Solanke one tinkles me off - I get even more tinkled off when fellow fans get on Solanke's back.

Agree, but what Solanke and his team mates are not doing is giving that feedback to the referee that the decision is unacceptable. They're not telling him that he needs to get a grip and follow the laws. Other players are. Also, other forwards are just going to ground and all their team mates are remonstrating.

It's about whether you want to address the root cause (Webb's lot for ignoring the laws) or whether you want to control the symptom and copy other team's behaviours. Because of Webb's lot, players dont take risks now. They make sure they do everything in their power to make sure a foul is given. They have lost trust in the referees, as sad as that sounds.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

It was very visible against Leeds. The ref needs to set a standard early, and that sets the tone. You could see that the Leeds players suddenly became much more aggressive after the incident and played like they were untouchable, to the point that our players seemed scared to fight for the ball. Especially the first 10 minutes afterwards. Up until then, I thought we looked pretty good, but that shifted the momentum entirely.

Was just listening to VFTL and they talked about (and maybe they knew something on background) how the players may have felt that they weren’t getting protected by the referee, and ended up deciding to protect themselves.

It’s actually the only thing I think explains just how sharp the drop off is in the second half, especially after such a good run. And also why RDZ called out the experienced players because he needs them to set the example, and had prepared the squad for a physical game all week. On the other hand from the players POV I can see that if they see Tel getting seriously injured and nothing being done, as well as Porro getting punished for pulling his foot out of the tackle and winning the ball, why they decided to protect their own bodies. Especially with international commitments this week.

It’s a tough one. In an ideal world our players are bastards and don’t get bullied by the physicality, but I do understand that there are limits and the refs have to protect them. The line is surely a player going off injured, it is still baffling to me that this doesn’t rise to the level of endangering the safety of the player.

 

[revlis]

Arsenal done the same and now get away with murder on a regular basis, which had a huge hand in them winning the title. Have at it i say

I'm not sure you could attribute referees suddenly deciding to allow wrestling at corners to some random people on the interest complaining.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don’t disagree but then you have the other end of the spectrum, like an attacker putting pressure on a defender facing his own goal. One touch on the back, the defender goes down and the ref gives a foul. These are absolutely infuriating, but what do you do? You end up touching the game and the rules so much that people don’t know what is and isn’t a foul. Basically, where we are!

I think the single biggest issue we have is that there is no consistency, and that sides have to spend the first 5 minutes trying to get the measure of how a particular ref is going to ref the game that day. Some refs, however, do have bias. And some players attract bias thanks to whirlwinds in social media. I remember the amount of times a full-speed Bale was clipped and went flying, only for me (and others) to be told to stop protecting divers and cheats. There WERE times when Bale would go to ground, however in my view that was because there were many times when he simply was not protected. Maddison gets whacked all the time....I'll stop LOL!