ManCHEATER United - cycnicism on an industrial scale under Van Gaal?

[Jurgen the German]

Think it may be a bit rose tinted glasses here - I went on their forum shortly after the game and they were disgusted with our thuggary - i.e. the Stambouli on Carrick, apparently a foul by Fazio prior to the Rooney thing - in general our thugishness.

I dont think either of us were bad.

Agreed. We have some players who know how to be cynical at times, Vertonghen knows how to milk it when he is fouled, Lamela did his best to get Benteke sent off at Villa. Stambouli's foul on Carrick could have been a red.

 

[Jurgen the German]

he's good to watch though isn't he, he handles journalists brilliantly, his ability to treat everyone with equal disdain is highly enjoyable

**** from bbc: "Louis, can you give us a sense of your transfer window plans"

LvG: "no"

I laughed when he was asked about De Gea "That is between the player and the club. I don't ask you what you are doing next summer". Journalist: "I can tell you if you like?" LVG: " I am not interested."

 

[Jurgen the German]

Genius LVG is 2 points better off than 7 places finishing Moyes was at this stage last season after a net spend of 122m in the summer.

The league position is more important than points in the greater scheme of things. Granted they are both important, but they have enough points this season to be 3rd. I personally wouldn't care if we finished with lower points but a higher league position.

 

[braineclipse]

What really does my head in is if we (or any other team) are getting the rough treatment and a player like say Lamela for instance, waves an imaginary yellow card after being hacked down it is frowned upon. So it is okay for them to dish out the heavy treatment but when we ask for protection it is seen as a bad trait, why is that?

Agreed. And somewhat similarly if someone then comes running at the referee screaming to try to get the player booked instead that's seemingly perfectly fine. Hands out, what the **** look at the ref, other players joining in. That's fine. But the line is at the imaginary card? That kind of inconsistency does my head in.

Somewhat similarly kicking the ball away to prevent a quick free kick is a booking. But picking the ball up, jogging 10 feet away before throwing the ball back inaccurately in a loop behind your head is perfectly acceptable. As is standing in front of the kick taker. Bull**** enforcement of the rules that encourage gamesmanship and cynicism.

Agreed. We have some players who know how to be cynical at times, Vertonghen knows how to milk it when he is fouled, Lamela did his best to get Benteke sent off at Villa. Stambouli's foul on Carrick could have been a red.

I agree we do have some of those players. Bentaleb certainly seems to have it in him, and I agree about Stambouli. But not the example you gave, making a potentially red card tackle like that, almost certain to pick up a booking relatively early. That's not cynical, that's losing your head.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Agreed. And somewhat similarly if someone then comes running at the referee screaming to try to get the player booked instead that's seemingly perfectly fine. Hands out, what the **** look at the ref, other players joining in. That's fine. But the line is at the imaginary card? That kind of inconsistency does my head in.

Somewhat similarly kicking the ball away to prevent a quick free kick is a booking. But picking the ball up, jogging 10 feet away before throwing the ball back inaccurately in a loop behind your head is perfectly acceptable. As is standing in front of the kick taker. Bull**** enforcement of the rules that encourage gamesmanship and cynicism.



I agree we do have some of those players. Bentaleb certainly seems to have it in him, and I agree about Stambouli. But not the example you gave, making a potentially red card tackle like that, almost certain to pick up a booking relatively early. That's not cynical, that's losing your head.

True. And that's the sort of thing that helps illustrate my point. There is a massive difference between hot-headedness and/or an individual players' routine tendency to cheat on the one hand and a clear plan of action set by the manager on the other.

Of course we do a fair bit of cheating one way or another, all clubs do. Eriksen is another who can be quite cute at it. But I doubt you could say we are following a preconceived, systematic plan whereby players appear to be following clear instructions to deliberately and cynically take out as early as possible any player about to pose an attacking threat.

I could be wrong but that was the strong impression I formed from the way Man Utd dealt with most of our attacks. So yes, of course we also playing dirty at times but whenever we did it looked more like individual players doing their own thing rather than it being part of a very clear tactical plan.

 

[Bullet]

Agreed. And somewhat similarly if someone then comes running at the referee screaming to try to get the player booked instead that's seemingly perfectly fine. Hands out, what the **** look at the ref, other players joining in. That's fine. But the line is at the imaginary card? That kind of inconsistency does my head in.

Somewhat similarly kicking the ball away to prevent a quick free kick is a booking. But picking the ball up, jogging 10 feet away before throwing the ball back inaccurately in a loop behind your head is perfectly acceptable. As is standing in front of the kick taker. Bull**** enforcement of the rules that encourage gamesmanship and cynicism.

Agreed mate. What happened to that rule of moving a freekick 10 yards forward if the opposition fanny around and don't give the ball back? That was a good way to stamp it out

 

[Hemant]

I'd like us to do the same. There, I said it. As far as I can see it, either we assemble the most expensive team of superstars ever and then simply blaze our way to glory playing beautiful football and acting chivalrously and fairly throughout......or we accept that we (for whatever self-inflicted reason) are a team of intensely limited means compared to the others, and try and make the best use of tools like the ones mentioned above to win games and ultimately win trophies.



Our remit as a team has since the days of Arthur Rowe been to be an attack-minded, relentless side. Fouling to stop breakaways and minimise danger doesn't exactly contradict that, imo.

The class act at cynical fouling and cheating will be at WHL later today. Chelsea foul around the half way mark to prevent breakaways and reduce risk of a card. Watch Fabregas, Oscar, Hazard, Willian and Matic commit fouls.
Then watch and hear the hypocrisy of Mourinho, who already started his manipulation so with his 'Campaign against Chelsea comments'. Now wait and see the refs be biased toward them.