Lucas Bergvall

[robp135]

Because it's just another a sign of the club not being able to commit to something. We seemed to accept our place in the football chain and signed Bergvall, Gray, Tel, Vuskovic etc. Now a couple of years later we're changing strategy yet again and going after big, expensive, 'do a job now' players. Once again, I'm not complaining about that as a strategy. I'm not saying it is wrong per se. I'm saying this club flips and flops way too much. We still don't have any semblance of an identity, of what we want to be. That'll take some time to develop under RDZ. But it's a huge risk, based on everything we've seen until now.

That place was was almost relegated on the final day of the season.

 

[Muttley]

I’d much rather have players who can come into the team and improve us rather than waiting on youngsters to reach their potential and fighting relegation every season. They are not going to be starters here which means they will not develop here.

We had the 6th best form in the league under RDZ. We can't blame the youngsters for where we found ourselves.

They contributed way more than guys like Muani who just had a weekly jog around the pitch.

 

[Robbo]

Chelski has about 14.000 players out on loan at any given time. Not to mention City and their numerous feeder clubs. Why can't we do the same with Bergvall ang Vuskovic?

I trust RDZ to make the best decision for the team right now, even if it includes selling Luca and Lukas, but those two are also highly rated youngsters who could save us considerable money in the future if they keep developing. Which they could easily do on loan, IMO.

 

[harr1984]

We had the 6th best form in the league under RDZ. We can't blame the youngsters for where we found ourselves.

They contributed way more than guys like Muani who just had a weekly jog around the pitch.

Bergvall was barely used under RDZ, Tel has been name checked several times by RDZ and someone he said he tried to sign at Marseille. He has also spoke about how good he thinks Gray will be.

So I think its more a case of RDZ not rating some of our young players as highly as some do on here, rather than we are just going to get rid of all our young players (I know you didn't say that, but seems to be a concern to some)...

 

[Mr Gogolak]

I understand why Bergvall would want a permanent deal and we're doing business with a lot of Premiership sides so a move is a strong possibility. However, if nobody is willing to pay in England, we'll be looking at part exchanges (something that might happen with Romero too, as I don't think any PL side would sign him). If that doesn't work either, he will have to lower his expectations and go on loan.

Different time, different player, but Gascoigne was tearing it at Bergvall's age. King, Campbell, Anderton... World class players are simply too good to ignore. Bergvall has a lot of potential and he should have a good career. Being part of a dysfonctional team didn't do him any favours, but I haven't seen anything from him to suggest he's irreplaceable. Only downside I see is the home-grown status but if we do sign two nailed-on starters, it's in everyone's best interests to move him on.

 

[glasgowspur]

Sign and resign two over thirties and let two very promising young ones go. Maybe the owners and management have decided they want to be in Europe...at all costs.

Should we sell vuskovic, Bergvall and Sarr and qualify for Europe next season we will need to go out and strengthen the squad for the extra games, probably paying more than what we get for those players.
IMHO it's a very short sighted view to sell them all.
At worst we should be looking at loans two of them.

 

[Bishop]

Should we sell vuskovic, Bergvall and Sarr and qualify for Europe next season we will need to go out and strengthen the squad for the extra games, probably paying more than what we get for those players.
IMHO it's a very short sighted view to sell them all.
At worst we should be looking at loans two of them.

What if that season we go out and strengthen with players both better than them and more suited to the type of football De Zerbi wants to play? Improving should be our goal every season, not sitting around thinking what we have currently is good enough.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think we can get more as there will be plenty of teams in for him. We should get £100M combined for Bergvall & Vuskovic.

If we got 100 million combined for them (50 mill each) that'd be insane business.
Not necessarily you, but there are people who have spent the last two seasons telling us how brick the squad is and that it is a 'double 17th' squad which shows us how 'brick' the players are, yet now we might be selling Bergvall, the thought becomes he is worth 50 million because City held out for 40 for Palmer (who had picked up a couple of medals from City)? I think we have to be sensible. Again, if people will pay that, marvelous. But I don't think they will.

Add in Vicario, Romero, Dragusin, Sarr, Richarlison that’s another £100M.

Vicario should get approx 20-25, Dragusin 20, Sarr 30 and Romero 50.

Then you got some of the younger players that have been out on loan like Phillops, Devine, Solomon, Veliz. We will get a cut of Parrots transfer as well. £200M+ incoming is very realistic.

We will have decent comings, I agree, yes...

 

[thfcsteff]

Because it's just another a sign of the club not being able to commit to something. We seemed to accept our place in the football chain and signed Bergvall, Gray, Tel, Vuskovic etc. Now a couple of years later we're changing strategy yet again and going after big, expensive, 'do a job now' players. Once again, I'm not complaining about that as a strategy. I'm not saying it is wrong per se. I'm saying this club flips and flops way too much. We still don't have any semblance of an identity, of what we want to be. That'll take some time to develop under RDZ. But it's a huge risk, based on everything we've seen until now.

And this is exactly the wheel we're on right now. The one we've yet to try. The 'buy big and proven' along with a few youth players. Fernandes would tick both boxes at 21 FWIW. van Hecke just turned 26. Tonali just turned 26. Gapko just turned 27 (if we're going for him). Kudus will be 26 in August. Not especially old and hitting a 3 year high.
I think keeping Archie Gray is imperative because of his versatility. A midfield squad of Gallagher, Gray, Tonali, Fernandes, Maddison and Bentancur foer the coming season would be very strong for what De Zerbi wants to play.

 

[Gutter Boy]

A midfield squad of Gallagher, Gray, Tonali, Fernandes, Maddison and Bentancur foer the coming season would be very strong for what De Zerbi wants to play.

Without much creativity?!

If Tonali and Fermandes are going to be cemented in starters, I just don't understand the logic of keeping Bentancur and Gallagher as back up, compared to much higher ceiling kids. Especially in a 45, rather than 65, game season

 

[glasgowspur]

What if that season we go out and strengthen with players both better than them and more suited to the type of football De Zerbi wants to play? Improving should be our goal every season, not sitting around thinking what we have currently is good enough.

Improvement should always be our goal.
What if after qualifying for Europe next season maddison, kulu, Odobert and xavi are still injured, recovering from injured, don't come back from injury the same player and suddenly we are have big gaps in the squad.
I've no issue with selling the players, I'm just not convinced that now is the best time to do it.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Without much creativity?!

If Tonali and Fermandes are going to be cemented in starters, I just don't understand the logic of keeping Bentancur and Gallagher as back up, compared to much higher ceiling kids. Especially in a 45, rather than 65, game season

Baggio was probably one of the last pure world class playmakers. Whether we like it or not, football has moved away from that type of players. Press is replacing creativity and De Zerbi is a modern manager.

As for the youngsters, they don't have a higher ceiling - they have potential. They could end up being better but it's not set in stone. Bentley was supposed to have all the potential in the world and it never materialised. One thing has never changed in football though: if you don't fit in the manager's plans, it's game over for you. Daniel Amokachi was a super player, but Joe Royle never wanted him and he ended playing second fiddle to Duncan Ferguson (understandable, even though Big Dunc was a lesser player) and Paul Rideout. Nuff said.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I have to say Bergvall frustrates me more than most of our players because of the number of times he gives free kicks away with mostly unnecessarily rash challenges. I can well imagine De Zerbi not being convinced by him right now.

It will be interesting to see if the likes of Bergvall leave on permanent deals or loans....

 

[Gutter Boy]

Baggio was probably one of the last pure world class playmakers. Whether we like it or not, football has moved away from that type of players. Press is replacing creativity and De Zerbi is a modern manager.

My concern is that we haven't scored a goal from open play since about 2024. I don't think Maddison will recover to his previous level (which lets be honest wasn't ever really good enough). Simons would have been key, but he's obviously out till the spring. So is 'where possession goes to die' Gallagher meant to be our playmaker for the season? Or are we going to give Devine a shot?

I know creative players have to be hardworking - Eriksen was textbook, I think Simons has the capacity (though he wasn't fit enough last season). But playing runners who can't pass is a recipe for another very poor season

 

[glorygloryeze]

My concern is that we haven't scored a goal from open play since about 2024. I don't think Maddison will recover to his previous level (which lets be honest wasn't ever really good enough). Simons would have been key, but he's obviously out till the spring. So is 'where possession goes to die' Gallagher meant to be our playmaker for the season? Or are we going to give Devine a shot?

I know creative players have to be hardworking - Eriksen was textbook, I think Simons has the capacity (though he wasn't fit enough last season). But playing runners who can't pass is a recipe for another very poor season

Some fair points potentially raised. But do Tonali and Fernandes both come under the category of "runners who can't pass"? Ditto Bentancur?

 

[Yiddo]

My concern is that we haven't scored a goal from open play since about 2024. I don't think Maddison will recover to his previous level (which lets be honest wasn't ever really good enough). Simons would have been key, but he's obviously out till the spring. So is 'where possession goes to die' Gallagher meant to be our playmaker for the season? Or are we going to give Devine a shot?

I know creative players have to be hardworking - Eriksen was textbook, I think Simons has the capacity (though he wasn't fit enough last season). But playing runners who can't pass is a recipe for another very poor season

Just because you pass the ball forwards a few times doesn’t make you creative. Bergval recycles the ball, thats all he does, he has not shown any consistent creativity to make him a starter.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Some fair points potentially raised. But do Tonali and Fernandes both come under the category of "runners who can't pass"? Ditto Bentancur?

Tonali is basically a good Gallagher. Fernandes is definitely a better passer, but he's an alrounder. But none of them are the sort of deep lying play maker we've craved for so long. The balance isn't quite there with those options

 

[Bishop]

Improvement should always be our goal.
What if after qualifying for Europe next season maddison, kulu, Odobert and xavi are still injured, recovering from injured, don't come back from injury the same player and suddenly we are have big gaps in the squad.
I've no issue with selling the players, I'm just not convinced that now is the best time to do it.

If the guys you mention are still injured/suffering from unconvincing form then the players we are reportedly willing to let go this season (Bergvall & Vuskovic) aren't the solution. They don't solve that issue at all. If anything kot having them clogging up the squad and having the money we get for them would actually go towards fixing whatever chronic injury issues we might have.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Just because you pass the ball forwards a few times doesn’t make you creative. Bergval recycles the ball, thats all he does, he has not shown any consistent creativity to make him a starter.

I would keep Bergvall instead of Gallagher as a box-to-box engine room. But also bring in a Stiller or Wharton as a ballplayer

 

[Mr Gogolak]

My concern is that we haven't scored a goal from open play since about 2024. I don't think Maddison will recover to his previous level (which lets be honest wasn't ever really good enough). Simons would have been key, but he's obviously out till the spring. So is 'where possession goes to die' Gallagher meant to be our playmaker for the season? Or are we going to give Devine a shot?

I know creative players have to be hardworking - Eriksen was textbook, I think Simons has the capacity (though he wasn't fit enough last season). But playing runners who can't pass is a recipe for another very poor season

I haven't watched much of Fernandes, but you're a tad unfair on Tonali - he's a decent passer. I think one problem that has been largely overlooked last season is the lack of movement from the forwards and, to be even more precise, the lack of diversity in runs. Under Frank, it was 'pass to feet' to everyone and work from there.

Ideally, you want your forwards to keep the opposition guessing and create space for others by making different kinds of runs. I'm not sure what we currently have offers that kind of variety, but I guess we will see.

However, I think you're hoping for something that doesn't really exist anymore. Nobody would play an Eriksen in the middle of the park, at least not in Western Europe. Simons is the closest thing we had to that, and his lack of strength remained a problem. From what I see, most managers have solved that problem with more focused and intense pressing - forcing opposition's mistakes instead of actually creating dangerous situations.

Enrique's PSG is one of the few exceptions to the rule, but even they use that weapon. It's just that they have more than one string to their bow.