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Lucas Bergvall

FolkestoneSpur said:
But not a strong enough character to want to stick around and fight for his place but wants out as soon as we appear to be finally acting like a big club?
I don't blame him, he's at an important stage in his development and obviously needs minutes but for me a player with the elite self belief would stay and fight.
In terms of cover we would still have Bentancur, Gallagher, Gray, Kulu and we may still sign Paulinha plus new signings.
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Well nobody really knows he wants out to be fair.

It would be nice to get an update on Kulu though. His fitness and availability would change some of the dynamics.
 
FolkestoneSpur said:
But not a strong enough character to want to stick around and fight for his place but wants out as soon as we appear to be finally acting like a big club?
I don't blame him, he's at an important stage in his development and obviously needs minutes but for me a player with the elite self belief would stay and fight.
In terms of cover we would still have Bentancur, Gallagher, Gray, Kulu and we may still sign Paulinha plus new signings.
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Because the maths don't work and I think players are not silly, they are around an environment enough to know when the writing is on the wall. If we get two new straight in starters as whats looking possible that means a shared workload with 8 midfielders at last count. There is fighting and then there is reality.

Easy to say "stay and fight" reality is we can all likely see that the clubs now going for yet another approach which doesn't include development time for youth.

The reality is for anyone, if we spend 90m on Tonali, he will be playing week in week out as the managers choice, for better or worse.
 
demotw said:
I struggle to describe Bergvall, watching him before he joined us he had all the hallmarks of a Gerrard, could dribble, pass and score. In the time he has been here however he has struggled to show that level in the prem. He is not a 10, he is not a 6 so that leaves him as a water carrier that can do a bit of everything but exceptional at nothing. I think for 60-70m I would be tempted, if 30-40m I would keep him and see how he goes under RDZ
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It would be nowhere near 60-70 mil if he were to go now, probably 30-40 at a push
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Because the maths don't work and I think players are not silly, they are around an environment enough to know when the writing is on the wall. If we get two new straight in starters as whats looking possible that means a shared workload with 8 midfielders at last count. There is fighting and then there is reality.

Easy to say "stay and fight" reality is we can all likely see that the clubs now going for yet another approach which doesn't include development time for youth.
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Oh I agree and it was really just my response to Muttley around him having been through a lot of character building things for such a young player. And yes the maths doesn't stack up for him and he will almost certainly picked up vibes from RDZ that he's not in his plans.
 
billyiddo said:
It would be nowhere near 60-70 mil if he were to go now, probably 30-40 at a push
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Then I would say tough he stays. Look at how City/Chelsea sell their youngsters with far less exposure. We have the power, if someone wants him then great but expect to have to show you want him, not expect a discount because it’s spurs
 
Muttley said:
I look at this so differently. Lucas has this on his CV

- I won the EL but missed out due to injury.
- I've played under 4 different managers in 2 seasons
- I nearly got relegated, but didn't

I mean, who has had more football life experiences than this? How can it not build your character into something really strong?

Should we not be careful that we don't let some of these strong characters leave? Numerically, we've lost Palhinha and Bissouma and it looks like we have some strong links to their replacements. If we lose Bergvall and Sarr, who will replace them numerically in our squad. OK, we don\t have UEFA football but we do need a really strong engine room.
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Well if that is the criteria most of the squad should be really strong characters as they've all gone through pretty much the same thing excluding missing out on the EL final.

One of the reasons we have flopped so badly is that we have had too many young potential players in place of established quality. So we have to make some decisions in order to upgrade, Bergvall rarely got a look in under RDZ and so doesn't seem he rates him as highly as some of us do or thinks he doesn't fit into the system - So just like Vuskovic we sell and get in someone more established with better qualities for the here and now.

It feels like we are completely going in another direction - the plan we had for years was to purchase young punts and hope we struck gold with one or two. Now we are willing to sell these punts to acquire, or at least try to acquire real proven quality. It's a shame this wasn't done when our stock was really high, but it's nice to see the intent and can only hope a lot of it comes off....
 
demotw said:
Then I would say tough he stays. Look at how City/Chelsea sell their youngsters with far less exposure. We have the power, if someone wants him then great but expect to have to show you want him, not expect a discount because it’s spurs
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The discount, if you could call it that, would be because the player wants a move. Personally I think that price would reflect his current standing and potential.

City & Chelsea have made selling their youth a business almost, certainly the latter, and both have a proven record of selling players that go on to be solid buys for the buying club so they can charge a premium as a result.
 
Chukwuemeka and Kellyman both sold to Chelsea from Villa for 20m+. Who I hear you cry, exactly! Let’s value our players the same as Brighton value there’s with a year left on their contracts…
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Chukwuemeka and Kellyman both sold to Chelsea from Villa for 20m+. Who I hear you cry, exactly! Let’s value our players the same as Brighton value there’s with a year left on their contracts…
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How much would Brighton value a young midfielder that hasn't nailed down a starting position? Apples and oranges here i think
 
Bishop said:
Not fazed if he's left the club and squad in a better state than he's inherited it. Personally I e never really bought the hype of Bergvall so especially not bothered. A decent prospect but I don't know I'm not as convinced as the majority here seemed to be, same with Tel and Gray tbh.
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I see more in Gray but agree totally on the other two.

We have been largely abysmal for two and a half seasons. It’s a root and branch job. Hard to shed tears for too many of them should they go. If he wants out that tells me (and, much more importantly, RDZ, I’d imagine) all I need to know.
 
Mikey10 said:
I see more in Gray but agree totally on the other two.

We have been largely abysmal for two and a half seasons. It’s a root and branch job. Hard to shed tears for too many of them.
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It’s not shedding tears for them it’s the impact it could have on us. Let’s not suggest our problems in the last year was because of Vuskovic or Bergvall.
 
billyiddo said:
While the problems are not those players specifically, selling them may help enable us to fund the solution - which is not enough quality in the first XI
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Yep this is what I think is happening, the new regime have made some huge promises but they don’t have the funds to execute them, so they’re selling the players of any value to fund a change.

These young players should be loaned out but as we need the funds…
 
One thing that does concern me with Bergvall & Vuskovic potentially leaving is that these signings (along with Gray) were a step towards resolving our club trained quota issues in Europe - we'd almost be back to square one with them out of the squad and would need to make moves with foresight to address that.
 
Legohamster said:
The players need to realise this as well, he's throwing his toys out of the pram rather than fighting for minutes.
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Not sure its throwing toys out the pram, its exercising his right to have control on his future.

Two free transfers and a JPVH signing and everyone's all of a sudden believing we have a strategy nailed down......we may well have, but I think some are right to be skeptical as do the players
 
Not including the players who were well on the way to being superstars before we sold them (Modric and Bale). How many young players (and just players in general) have we let go of and regretted it because they turned out to be world class? I can’t remember a single one in the last 15-20 years.

I trust the system.
 
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