João Palhinha

[thfcsteff]

Yes - Paulinha is in the team to be a pure destroyer. So his effectiveness can only be gauged on that basis.... and, boy, does he pass that test with flying colours. Our problem isn't "just" vertical passes through midfield. It is that our complete lack of genuinely creative players. The two who fit that definition are in the treatment room, their replacement is struggling to adapt to the premier league and - despite an obvious titanic sized gap in left wing - we failed to replace our world class captain in that position over the summer.

The problem is not Paulinha.... it is what is around him; or the lack of it. If they could do their creative job, half as well as the Portughese does his, we wouldn't even be having this conversation....

Agreed.

 

[thfcsteff]

see what caicedo did yesterday - he is a destroyer plus. doesn't go around to try to win all tackles but falls back into a structure so that the team can play their part. only destroys to punish. if Paulinha needs to come close he needs to win the ball and play a useful ball that can turn into attack quickly, instead of passing it to the nearest player after completing his part. what about pushing forward himself to receive the ball in attack... palhinha regains possession but we do not get a clear advantage and that's why a a lot of teams dispense with pure DMs today.

If he had (currently) one of Bergvall, Sarr or Gray to lay the ball off to centrally plus Udogie or Porro in the defensive wide areas, we would absolutely benefit. The main issue right now is we do not seem interested in using the middle of the pitch to build/create attacking play. Until that changes, much of this discussion is academic.

 

[Bishop]

If he had (currently) one of Bergvall, Sarr or Gray to lay the ball off to centrally plus Udogie or Porro in the defensive wide areas, we would absolutely benefit. The main issue right now is we do not seem interested in using the middle of the pitch to build/create attacking play. Until that changes, much of this discussion is academic.

I kind of agree and disagree. If the player next Palhina were more expensive then the balance would undoubtedly be better no question. I however don't think any of the other options we have are either progressive enough in their passing or have the technique and vision in that same passing to compensate for Palhina's pure destroyer work. You almost need a passing metronome in the ilk of a Modric/Pirlo/Xavi etc to get that re-balance thr quality of possession to gain the attacking verve we want. Then add that we will still be lacking anything of note on the left and I don't believe swapping Bentancur with one of our pre existing options is actually enough. It's putting to much expectation on any one of those individuals to suddenly step up and run games for us when that's not been their strength so far.

We need Palhina absolutely no doubt and he has been one of our stand outs so far, but we can also admit the difficulties he provides systemically. Add a real quality possession and direct LWF, get MuanI really up to speed, and if Xavi were to then also fall into some proper form or Kulu returns at full pelt and then midfield changes you suggest could work but it's a lot hoping everything goes just right.

Long term I think we can see the limitations of a Palhina pure destroyer type brings as opposed to your more progressive all rounder as evidenced with Caicedo on Saturday. I think going forward our best bet would be to add another quality DM but someone who does have that passing game so someone like Ederson (who I mention constantly), or Locatelli or the guy Rovella who was mentioned in another thread. Play that person next to Palhina and we keep and in fact Improve our defensive stability along with gaining quality in possession. Then in the long run there will be games that call only for say Ederson/Loca/Rovella/Caicedo etc to play with one of Sarr/Bergvall/Gray and games where going for more defensive solidity and pairing with Palhina makes sense.

 

[braineclipse]

I kind of agree and disagree. If the player next Palhina were more expensive then the balance would undoubtedly be better no question. I however don't think any of the other options we have are either progressive enough in their passing or have the technique and vision in that same passing to compensate for Palhina's pure destroyer work. You almost need a passing metronome in the ilk of a Modric/Pirlo/Xavi etc to get that re-balance thr quality of possession to gain the attacking verve we want. Then add that we will still be lacking anything of note on the left and I don't believe swapping Bentancur with one of our pre existing options is actually enough. It's putting to much expectation on any one of those individuals to suddenly step up and run games for us when that's not been their strength so far.

We need Palhina absolutely no doubt and he has been one of our stand outs so far, but we can also admit the difficulties he provides systemically. Add a real quality possession and direct LWF, get MuanI really up to speed, and if Xavi were to then also fall into some proper form or Kulu returns at full pelt and then midfield changes you suggest could work but it's a lot hoping everything goes just right.

Long term I think we can see the limitations of a Palhina pure destroyer type brings as opposed to your more progressive all rounder as evidenced with Caicedo on Saturday. I think going forward our best bet would be to add another quality DM but someone who does have that passing game so someone like Ederson (who I mention constantly), or Locatelli or the guy Rovella who was mentioned in another thread. Play that person next to Palhina and we keep and in fact Improve our defensive stability along with gaining quality in possession. Then in the long run there will be games that call only for say Ederson/Loca/Rovella/Caicedo etc to play with one of Sarr/Bergvall/Gray and games where going for more defensive solidity and pairing with Palhina makes sense.

Fully agreed that a more or less pure destroyer like Palhinha will cause limitations that aren't really compensated for unless you have players who are standout at the things he doesn't do much of.

I doubt a player at that level is incoming in January. But even some balancing can improve us. I think that's possible both with new players as you suggest and those already here.

Alternatively find an Ivan Toney type player and embrace the long ball. To be clear that wouldn't be my preference, but it would make for a more functional setup.

 

[parklane1]

There is no doubt in my mind that Paulinio is the player our CM has called out for years and his perfomances have shown that. However as many have said we really do need a progressive CM to play with him, its something we have lacked for a while [ imo Maddison is not the player even if he was fit too play there as he is to inconsistant].