Interim manager thread 2.0

[treepits]

Just caught up on this thread and genuinely was confused as to whether rumours were abound we were signing greenwood

There seems to be two de zerbi debates going on, one whether he’s a suitable manager for us due to his tactics/hot headed ness etc which seems reasonable and another where his suitability is questioned for picking players that are under investigation

The second feels a bit sketchy to me, are we suggesting any manager, past or present, who selects greenwood, partey plus any others accused are now black listed from the club? Greenwood is a young man presumably with a good few managers who will end up managing him, all of these will no longer be welcome at Tottenham in any capacity?

What about his teammates? Should we black list those too for refusing to take a stand and not play alongside him?

I’m not as au fait with the greenwood case as others seem to be on here, I’ve never listened to the tapes and have no desire to, and I agree and would support a position to stop the club from ever signing him. But to not want a manager because he selected him seems a bit of a stretch and begs the question as to where we draw the line

 

[thfcsteff]

Just caught up on this thread and genuinely was confused as to whether rumours were abound we were signing greenwood

There seems to be two de zerbi debates going on, one whether he’s a suitable manager for us due to his tactics/hot headed ness etc which seems reasonable and another where his suitability is questioned for picking players that are under investigation

The second feels a bit sketchy to me, are we suggesting any manager, past or present, who selects greenwood, partey plus any others accused are now black listed from the club? Greenwood is a young man presumably with a good few managers who will end up managing him, all of these will no longer be welcome at Tottenham in any capacity?

What about his teammates? Should we black list those too for refusing to take a stand and not play alongside him?

I’m not as au fait with the greenwood case as others seem to be on here, I’ve never listened to the tapes and have no desire to, and I agree and would support a position to stop the club from ever signing him. But to not want a manager because he selected him seems a bit of a stretch and begs the question as to where we draw the line

That is, indeed, part of the debate going on, yes.

Take whichever you prefer in my case; I think it'd be a poor appointment if we're serious about both our culture and clearing rot out. We'd be introducing a style, manner and attitude which IMO would do nothing for us as a club.
If he gets the job, I'll bite my tongue and support the club as I always do.

 

[treepits]

That is, indeed, part of the debate going on, yes.

Take whichever you prefer in my case; I think it'd be a poor appointment if we're serious about both our culture and clearing rot out. We'd be introducing a style, manner and attitude which IMO would do nothing for us as a club.
If he gets the job, I'll bite my tongue and support the club as I always do.

I don’t know a lot about him, I’ll be honest, but if the hot headed ness claims are true then I’m not sure that’s what we need right now for the remaining games of this season. I would have thought calm was more the way forward

 

[SteveAWOL]

Wait I’m confused are we signing Greenwood or De Zerbi?

To my knowledge, De Zerbi hasn’t been accused of anything, so to hold against him the account of someone else is ridiculous. Neither is he judge or jury, in this country at least people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, irrespective of opinions the player was not proven guilty so for him to then take action against said player sounds like a unfair dismissal/bullying case waiting to happen.

I will also point out I see no comments of the likes of Gascoigne turning up for charity matches etc.

Judge the guy on his football, he has not broken the law personally so I won’t hang him for it.

This.

Paul Gascoigne trial highlights why most women don’t report sexual abuse or rape

Same old rape myths, same old victim blaming.

theconversation.com

Sadly seems to be just the tip of the iceberg plus we signed Bissouma when he was under investigation for sexual assault so can hardly take the moral high ground.

The player we can’t write about and football’s ‘systemic failure’ to deal with sexual violence

A Premier League player is representing his club despite facing accusations of sexual violence. And nobody can talk or do anything about it.

www.nytimes.com

 

[harr1984]

Just caught up on this thread and genuinely was confused as to whether rumours were abound we were signing greenwood

There seems to be two de zerbi debates going on, one whether he’s a suitable manager for us due to his tactics/hot headed ness etc which seems reasonable and another where his suitability is questioned for picking players that are under investigation

The second feels a bit sketchy to me, are we suggesting any manager, past or present, who selects greenwood, partey plus any others accused are now black listed from the club? Greenwood is a young man presumably with a good few managers who will end up managing him, all of these will no longer be welcome at Tottenham in any capacity?

What about his teammates? Should we black list those too for refusing to take a stand and not play alongside him?

I’m not as au fait with the greenwood case as others seem to be on here, I’ve never listened to the tapes and have no desire to, and I agree and would support a position to stop the club from ever signing him. But to not want a manager because he selected him seems a bit of a stretch and begs the question as to where we draw the line

You could be forgiven for thinking we are looking at appointing Greenwood as manger the way this debate has gone (he might be next on the list with this lot, who knows).

Why the fudge anyone would think a football manager should be judge, jury and executioner of someone not convicted of anything I have no idea....

 

[carl]

You could be forgiven for thinking we are looking at appointing Greenwood as manger the way this debate has gone (he might be next on the list with this lot, who knows).

Why the fudge anyone would think a football manager should be judge, jury and executioner of someone not convicted of anything I have no idea....

I agree, Virtue signalling at its finest. You then have a few who just like to jump on the band wagon.

As for the posters calling De Zerbi a rape enabler etc, well they're far worse than De Zerbi in my opinion.

 

[carl]

Mate.
I don't like him.
I never have.
I think he projects as a massive c unt.
My opinion.
Sharing it with this forum.
You obviously disagree.
Great. All good.

As for Ferguson, I think what he did with Beckham in that moment was very poor. I think what he did with the young players he had for many many years (and how he treated everyone at Man Utd) was exceptional. Based on his history, I would absolutely give Fergie a pass. So yeah , you've got me wrong on that one.

What are your thoughts on Ferguson continuing to play Cantona after he was actually convicted of assault? Does he also get a pass for that in your opinion?

 

[LutonSpurs]

Stan Collymore isn't white. Don't see him being cancelled.

This is about having as our manager and it would be the same

 

[DeanoAustin]

This.

Paul Gascoigne trial highlights why most women don’t report sexual abuse or rape

Same old rape myths, same old victim blaming.

theconversation.com

Sadly seems to be just the tip of the iceberg plus we signed Bissouma when he was under investigation for sexual assault so can hardly take the moral high ground.

The player we can’t write about and football’s ‘systemic failure’ to deal with sexual violence

A Premier League player is representing his club despite facing accusations of sexual violence. And nobody can talk or do anything about it.

www.nytimes.com

I wasn’t even aware of this case with Gascoigne. Gascoigne also admitted that he beat his wife “black and blue” over a “stupid argument”. He’s a scumbag and I say that as someone who loved watching him play football.

Nobody has on here to be fair but if anyone doesn’t condemn Gascoigne, a self confessed wife beater, and condemns de Zerbi, a football manager who played a guy who was never convicted of anything – well, that’s a very hard circle to square.

Also, maybe I missed it but I do not recall any outcry when Gascoigne donned our jersey for a legends game.

 

[LutonSpurs]

The only reason Gazza doesn't get the same treatment is he is white. Simple.

Gazza is a blind spot for Spurs fans. It always has been. Yes he has and has had mental health issues. As Greenwood might. But it's fun how so many people duck this convo. Check yourself?

 

[P.D.]

I’m the biggest Poch in for the long term person going, but I don’t think even he guarantees success for the rest of the season.

I don’t think anyone does.

I’m still trying to figure out whether the Davies story is just trying to get comfortable with it is pure copium for the fact that we’re even in this situation or actually there’s some real method to it.

But to the extent that a player who is smart to the dynamics of this squad and this generation can come in and make a difference, I’m intrigued. And I think all of our issues stem back to the foundations of the squad being destroyed at the end of last season after going through hell fire and winning a trophy. And I think perhaps only a player who was on that journey with him could really understand that dynamic and find the words to get the players together and out of it again, rather than anyone coming in from the outside at this point.

Realistically it's not going to be some master tactician that plots a way to safety, we need someone who can come in keep things simple and play players in their correct positions and instill some confidence into the team and hope we can scrape a win that builds some momentum. Davies certainly has the potential to fit that bill for a few games - I'd imagine the players would at least listen and respect him.

It's a shame Defoe has just left, I'd like to have seen him on the coaching team.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Since this is no longer about football, I'm taking this opportunity to ask a question that genuinely intrigues me: if you don't want De Zerbi at the club for moral reasons - which is fair enough - do you apply the same standards to writers and musicians, for instance?

I should add that I have zero knowledge of the Greenwood case and of De Zerbi's handling of said case. Also, when I was younger, I refrained from reading Celine's Journey to the End of the Night because I was uncomfortable with the idea I might like it despite the author's rather... strong views on Jewish people. How about John Lennon, for instance (easy for me to ask, I'm one of the few people who never enjoyed his music!!)?

And what about things you don't know? Does that count? Do you change your mind once you know?

Again, I'm really not having a go at anyone - anyone's entitled to their opinions and beliefs (mine aren't necessarily very clear on this particular question). I'm just being curious.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Since this is no longer about football, I'm taking this opportunity to ask a question that genuinely intrigues me: if you don't want De Zerbi at the club for moral reasons - which is fair enough - do you apply the same standards to writers and musicians, for instance?

I should add that I have zero knowledge of the Greenwood case and of De Zerbi's handling of said case. Also, when I was younger, I refrained from reading Celine's Journey to the End of the Night because I was uncomfortable with the idea I might like it despite the author's rather... strong views on Jewish people. How about John Lennon, for instance (easy for me to ask, I'm one of the few people who never enjoyed his music!!)?

And what about things you don't know? Does that count? Do you change your mind once you know?

Again, I'm really not having a go at anyone - anyone's entitled to their opinions and beliefs (mine aren't necessarily very clear on this particular question). I'm just being curious.

In a world where there's a celebratory Michael Jackson film about to come out (why not 'bring back' Gary Glitter or Jimmy Saville?), there absolutely needs to be higher standards across other industries.

Roman Polanksi and Armie Hammer people definitely avoid their back catalogues because of their crimes as examples.

 

[billyiddo]

I think there's a difference between sports and the arts that allows you to seperate the artist from the art in a way that you cannot do with sports.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Since this is no longer about football, I'm taking this opportunity to ask a question that genuinely intrigues me: if you don't want De Zerbi at the club for moral reasons - which is fair enough - do you apply the same standards to writers and musicians, for instance?

I should add that I have zero knowledge of the Greenwood case and of De Zerbi's handling of said case. Also, when I was younger, I refrained from reading Celine's Journey to the End of the Night because I was uncomfortable with the idea I might like it despite the author's rather... strong views on Jewish people. How about John Lennon, for instance (easy for me to ask, I'm one of the few people who never enjoyed his music!!)?

And what about things you don't know? Does that count? Do you change your mind once you know?

Again, I'm really not having a go at anyone - anyone's entitled to their opinions and beliefs (mine aren't necessarily very clear on this particular question). I'm just being curious.

Its about being the change when it comes to the victims of DV. The numbers are frightening. We can't be part of allowing it to be just a thing that happens. For me in this instance there is no direct apology from Mason. If he wants a career then it is important to see he has changed, shown contrition so as a society we can say we know that DV is never OK.

Why I feel strongly about it.

De Zerbi clearly is a guy who doesn't see it as an issue for me. And that with all the other stuff about him being a massive bellend it becomes an issue for me. I love this club. And how ever I can make the case for us being a good and decent place for anyone to work is important to me. De Zerbi feels antithetical to that. I felt the same about Harry Redknapp. Mourinho.

I do not demand others feel the same. These are my ideals.

 

[lurker of old]

Roman Polanksi and Armie Hammer people definitely avoid their back catalogues because of their crimes as examples.
And listening to the operas of Wagner? To me, the arguement that you avoid the output of creative people because they were not saints is crazy.
It is akin to condemning national heroes of the past because their behaviour doesn't fit contemporary values.

 

[Mikey10]

I haven’t been a fan of the idea of de Zerbi as our manager since I watched him getting on like an arsehole at the side of our pitch as Brighton manager three or four years ago.

That said, the idea that we wouldn’t employ him because he played a player who wasn’t found guilty of anything in a court of law seems odd to me.

I know little about the Greenwood ‘case’ (if case is the right word given he never stood trial), but I am not a fan of young people being binned off forever because of mistakes they may have made; particularly, given what I can pick up on here, that it would appear from the statement United issued that he expressed regret, and given that he has resumed a serious relationship - and gone on to have a family - with the woman at the centre of the allegations.

I still think De Zerbi is a bit of an arsehole, and that it would all eventually end in tears; but him playing Mason Greenwood is for me no reason for him not to be our manager. After all, we’ve got a convicted felon (recently pardoned by his pal - and convicted abuser of women - Donald Trump) as an owner; and, as someone else has pointed out, we frequently welcome back Paul Gascoigne (who has admitted assaulting his ex-wife) as a hero.

Only my thoughts, and I’m definitely not an expert on what went on - but I think it’s a bit late to consider our club as any sort of paragon of moral virtue within what has become a very dirty industry.

 

[clownfoot]

If De Zerbi is the person we hire I don’t think he’ll be manager by the time the January 2028 transfer window closes. He will call out the board in a similar way to Conte and be sent on his way. But with the situation we are in we need a short term solution before we can consider the long term

At this stage I don’t care who we pick as long as they keep us up.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Roman Polanksi and Armie Hammer people definitely avoid their back catalogues because of their crimes as examples.
And listening to the operas of Wagner? To me, the arguement that you avoid the output of creative people because they were not saints is crazy.
It is akin to condemning national heroes of the past because their behaviour doesn't fit contemporary values.

Polanski raped a 13 year old and Hammer practiced cannibalism. It's not reasonable to enjoy Chinatown or Call Me By Your Name without weighing those things in

 

[Gutter Boy]

If De Zerbi is the person we hire I don’t think he’ll be manager by the time the January 2028 transfer window closes. He will call out the board in a similar way to Conte and be sent on his way. But with the situation we are in we need a short term solution before we can consider the long term

At this stage I don’t care who we pick as long as they keep us up.

I seriously doubt he'll last 3 games with the toxicity the situation will create.

He's also completely the wrong personality for our squad, who need some calm and love, not a Peninsular War sergeant major balling at them.