How do we get back to creating chances & more importantly scoring goals!

[Armchair Expert]

How can we start creating/scoring/winning? I think we need better players...

Southampton will come to the lane this weekend and I'm really confident they'll do us. Why? I think they have better players. I really think that we have a squad that is capable of 8th/9th at best - 13th/14th at worst.

Our defence is rubbish. I think Naughton is decent; the rest are tripe. Kaboul, Rose, Chiriches (!), Davies all look rubbish. Fazio no one knows yet, but would we be surprised if he goes the way of Soldado? Dier is young and has potential - but he is being called upon as a starter and then out of position. Vertonghen seems to be finding out that when you give up for a season then no-one comes in for you that its very hard to turn it back on. Still out best defender mind.

All in all the defence is woeful, right up their with the worst in the league.

The midfield isn't any better. Would anyone fall off their seats if they saw a player like Capoue playing for Aston Villa? Bentaleb for Sunderland? Lennon for Swansea? Townsend for Burnley? Paulinho for Northampton? Personally I rate Dembele as our best bet in the '6' position but he seems down the pecking order. Will Strambouli make it? Based on our recent activity in the market the chances must be 50/50 at best. There is no way on earth this crop is better than a Sandro, Huddlestone, Holtby pool of options.

The midfield is craap, mid to lower-mid table at best. How many of those players would get into our 'rivals' teams? None. Lets hope Mason 'the great white hope' can really deliver. Otherwise we'll never, ever, get on top of teams and dominate matches. The quality isn't there.

The forwards provide cause for optimism. Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli have potential. Lets hope they fulfill it.

The strikers are awful. We have all be so desperate for Soldado to come good. Not going to happen. He is our Fernando Torres. Busted flush and expensive flop. There just isn't, and never has been, any sign he is going to contribute. Adebayor. Hmmm. Even the inform and interested Adebayor is overrated. Never a finisher; still just as likely to trip over his own feet as cash in on a rare half chance in a game where we aren't clicking.

Harry Kane is the striker showing the most promise. I think if he played the whole season as number 1 he'd pick up a fair few. Going to be a very good player i think. But this is 2014/15. Who do our rivals have up front? Diego Costa, Rooney, Falcao, van Persie, Aguero, Lukaku etc.

I like Kane, and I'd play him, but we're coming off very midtable again here I think.

Wonder what Poch thinks about moving from Southampton now :-k

So, in summary, we are struggling because we are craap. Get better players, have a transfer policy, don't have a revolving door, don't replace existing players with ones of inferior or similar quality, if you miss a target don't buy cheap second option etc etc.

The way I see it we are basically beginning from 0 again... we've morphed back to 2004 and Frank Arnesen is again required. However, football has changed now. We'll never be able to pepper the team with 3-6 million signings and improve. Its going to be a long hard road getting back to where we have been for the past 10 years or so. And whats more, I don't see any outstanding reasons as to why we should be able to do it. None. Why should we manage it? Don't have exceptional financial clout, don't have a knack for uncovering good managers and have a wayward transfer policy/ recruitment system.

 

[billyiddo]

AE - take it you though both AVB and Sherwood were over acheiving last season then?

 

[Gutter Boy]

How many times over the last two seasons have we played really well playing with one lone striker? either Ade or Soldado. by playing well I mean creating many chances and scoring goals not having 65% possesion.

how many times have we gubbed teams? ran up scores like pool or other lot?

Why do we keep persisting with something that hasnt/wont work! why dont we just admit our strikers would be more affective playing with a strike partner and be done with it, if we wanted to play with a lone striker then yes we should have bought Demba bloody Ba even if it meant Chelsea taking the **** slightly with the transfer fee!

if you can give me five games where we have played 1 up top and looked brilliant I will be amazed! Norwich (h) last year maybe, I cant think of many others where we have been so dominant, created loads of chances and scored goals.

But if we play with only 4 midfielders, we just get steamrollered in the centre of the park and our defence is left exposed (see Timmeh's reign).

We've played a handful of league games this season and on this you've come to the conclusion the tactics don't work? 4231 isn't a tactic it's a formation and AVB Sherwood and Poch will all have different tactics to go along with it. So it not working for AVB doesn't mean it won't work for us now - you only have to look at the difference in types of permances under the two managers we had last season to see that, surely?

I can stand the entitlement that exists. Poch has been in charge about 12 matches (half of which were effectively reserve games). Our collective confidence and mentality were destroyed by last season. Next season is where we judge Poch. This season is about introducing his philosophy and seeing a direction of travel.

How can we start creating/scoring/winning? I think we need better players...

Southampton will come to the lane this weekend and I'm really confident they'll do us. Why? I think they have better players. I really think that we have a squad that is capable of 8th/9th at best - 13th/14th at worst.

Our defence is rubbish. I think Naughton is decent; the rest are tripe. Kaboul, Rose, Chiriches (!), Davies all look rubbish. Fazio no one knows yet, but would we be surprised if he goes the way of Soldado? Dier is young and has potential - but he is being called upon as a starter and then out of position. Vertonghen seems to be finding out that when you give up for a season then no-one comes in for you that its very hard to turn it back on. Still out best defender mind.

All in all the defence is woeful, right up their with the worst in the league.

The midfield isn't any better. Would anyone fall off their seats if they saw a player like Capoue playing for Aston Villa? Bentaleb for Sunderland? Lennon for Swansea? Townsend for Burnley? Paulinho for Northampton? Personally I rate Dembele as our best bet in the '6' position but he seems down the pecking order. Will Strambouli make it? Based on our recent activity in the market the chances must be 50/50 at best. There is no way on earth this crop is better than a Sandro, Huddlestone, Holtby pool of options.

The midfield is craap, mid to lower-mid table at best. How many of those players would get into our 'rivals' teams? None. Lets hope Mason 'the great white hope' can really deliver. Otherwise we'll never, ever, get on top of teams and dominate matches. The quality isn't there.

The forwards provide cause for optimism. Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli have potential. Lets hope they fulfill it.

The strikers are awful. We have all be so desperate for Soldado to come good. Not going to happen. He is our Fernando Torres. Busted flush and expensive flop. There just isn't, and never has been, any sign he is going to contribute. Adebayor. Hmmm. Even the inform and interested Adebayor is overrated. Never a finisher; still just as likely to trip over his own feet as cash in on a rare half chance in a game where we aren't clicking.

Harry Kane is the striker showing the most promise. I think if he played the whole season as number 1 he'd pick up a fair few. Going to be a very good player i think. But this is 2014/15. Who do our rivals have up front? Diego Costa, Rooney, Falcao, van Persie, Aguero, Lukaku etc.

I like Kane, and I'd play him, but we're coming off very midtable again here I think.

Wonder what Poch thinks about moving from Southampton now :-k

So, in summary, we are struggling because we are craap. Get better players, have a transfer policy, don't have a revolving door, don't replace existing players with ones of inferior or similar quality, if you miss a target don't buy cheap second option etc etc.

The way I see it we are basically beginning from 0 again... we've morphed back to 2004 and Frank Arnesen is again required. However, football has changed now. We'll never be able to pepper the team with 3-6 million signings and improve. Its going to be a long hard road getting back to where we have been for the past 10 years or so. And whats more, I don't see any outstanding reasons as to why we should be able to do it. None. Why should we manage it? Don't have exceptional financial clout, don't have a knack for uncovering good managers and have a wayward transfer policy/ recruitment system.

The worst that can happen is we'll get 7th. 6th is our default position, but Everton sometimes overachieve.

High turnover signings never works. And 5 teams will always spend more than we can on better players than we can get. As we can't be richer, we need to be cleverer to succeed.

We've got the youngest squad in the league now. Let's just back the coach to grow them organically. It'll be much more satisfying than buying our way up the league.

 

[Armchair Expert]

AE - take it you though both AVB and Sherwood were over acheiving last season then?

Nope. Par for the course really. With Man Utd's capitulation 6th was up for grabs and we made it. If AVB had remained I think we would without doubt have finished lower, whilst I thought Sherwood's selections were bizarre and we were often set up to lose.

I would argue that rather than doing sensible things this summer to rectify the situation (i.e. bombing Paulinho out the club and having, Holtby for instance as understudy to the 10) we have compounded things by having an equally atrocious transfer window as last summer, albeit in mini scale.

Signings like Strambouli, Fazio etc and the outgoings of Sandro and Dawson as a result just leave us in a situation where its anyones guess who our best players are. Last season we at least knew who could do what, this year the whole thing is a fooking mystery. We've kept deadwood when we should have sold, and in my opinion, didn't enter the market at crucial times (i.e. to pick up Mane). I understand that this is really subjective, but I can't help but feel whenever we dip into the market it seems to be a signing that we don'T need, or a player for a position where we have bodies and the new recruit lacks the skill set missing in said area.

We didn't address our main problems and skirted around the periphery with our revolving door policy.

You can only go so long operating like this until the bottom falls out. Are we better off moving on the likes of Dempsey, Defoe, Siggy, Hotlby, Sandro, Huddlestone, Dawson and replacing them with Fazio's and Stambouli's? Who knows!? Are we going to suffer from not knowing our best team and from constant upheavel for questionable benefit? Absolutely.

We are on, and have been on, a downward spiral in terms of quality for at least 4 seasons now. We get more and more eroded each pre season, and the days of having a quality team seem increasingly like a distant memory.

 

[braineclipse]

Keep doing what we're doing imo.

Good signs and unlike under AVB last season we're looking threatening and just need a bit more accuracy or tempo.

 

[Jordinho]

Our squad is better than Everton and Southampton and on par with Liverpool. Man Utd are still an open question, which means a fight for 4th is definitely on. Arsenal will probably get their **** together in the nick of time as usual.

 

[braineclipse]

Nope. Par for the course really. With Man Utd's capitulation 6th was up for grabs and we made it. If AVB had remained I think we would without doubt have finished lower, whilst I thought Sherwood's selections were bizarre and we were often set up to lose.

I would argue that rather than doing sensible things this summer to rectify the situation (i.e. bombing Paulinho out the club and having, Holtby for instance as understudy to the 10) we have compounded things by having an equally atrocious transfer window as last summer, albeit in mini scale.

Signings like Strambouli, Fazio etc and the outgoings of Sandro and Dawson as a result just leave us in a situation where its anyones guess who our best players are. Last season we at least knew who could do what, this year the whole thing is a fooking mystery. We've kept deadwood when we should have sold, and in my opinion, didn't enter the market at crucial times (i.e. to pick up Mane). I understand that this is really subjective, but I can't help but feel whenever we dip into the market it seems to be a signing that we don'T need, or a player for a position where we have bodies and the new recruit lacks the skill set missing in said area.

We didn't address our main problems and skirted around the periphery with our revolving door policy.

You can only go so long operating like this until the bottom falls out. Are we better off moving on the likes of Dempsey, Defoe, Siggy, Hotlby, Sandro, Huddlestone, Dawson and replacing them with Fazio's and Stambouli's? Who knows!? Are we going to suffer from not knowing our best team and from constant upheavel for questionable benefit? Absolutely.

We are on, and have been on, a downward spiral in terms of quality for at least 4 seasons now. We get more and more eroded each pre season, and the days of having a quality team seem increasingly like a distant memory.

Am I right in saying that Poch wasn't your first choice this summer? Would you have been as quick to judge new signings and as bombastic about our current development this early in the season if your preferred managerial candidate had been brought in?

 

[Armchair Expert]

Am I right in saying that Poch wasn't your first choice this summer? Would you have been as quick to judge new signings and as bombastic about our current development this early in the season if your preferred managerial candidate had been brought in?

Yes, i think i would have. Poch certainly wasn't my first choice, but my points relate purely to the tools our manager has at his disposal, and not the merits of his appointment.

My attitude or thoughts on the players can be construed as positive for Pochettino: If all Spurs fans held my view of the players and the lack of quality in the squad, then Poch would get time and backing to turn it around. If we finish 11th this year I won't be surprised, and certainly won't be laying the blame at the manager's door.

I just genuinely think we have a dearth of talent in the squad, and whats worse, in crucial areas. Therefore my response to the thread was I don't see any quick tactical solution that would lead to us looking good and scoring freely. I also cant see any simple solutions in terms of personnel currently available to the manager.

 

[glasgowspur]

All three of our strikers can play lone striker, albeit in different ways, the problem is no one is supporting them from midfield. Look at Ba last night, line striker but how times was he the only be in the box? I still argue we don't really play lone striker any, we just don't do it very well. We have two forward units in different 11s and to me they have the wrong striker in each. Ade would have suited last nights set up than Soldado and Soldado would benefit playing with ericksen, Lamella and chadli.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[King of Norway]

Some people say that we need to play with two strikers to be more of a threat in and around the penalty area, whilst others say that we we get steamrolled in midfield if we only have 4 men in there, especially against better teams.

But it is perfectly possible to play two strikers and tell one of them to drop back when we are not in possession. The problem at times under Sherwood was that the two strikers stayed up front all the time and didn't help out defensively. Harry Kane, for example, can play slightly behind the striker, help out defenisvely like he did last night, and still be a threat in and around the box when we have the ball. I think we have tried to play in this way in our last two games, actually. Pochettino, in his post-match interview, said we played with two strikers against Arsenal in Chadli and Adebayor. I think is something we should continue trying, especially in home games where we dominate possession against teams who sit back in numbers.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Some people say that we need to play with two strikers to be more of a threat in and around the penalty area, whilst others say that we we get steamrolled in midfield if we only have 4 men in there, especially against better teams.

But it is perfectly possible to play two strikers and tell one of them to drop back when we are not in possession. The problem at times under Sherwood was that the two strikers stayed up front all the time and didn't help out defensively. Harry Kane, for example, can play slightly behind the striker, help out defenisvely like he did last night, and still be a threat in and around the box when we have the ball. I think we have tried to play in this way in our last two games, actually. Pochettino, in his post-match interview, said we played with two strikers against Arsenal in Chadli and Adebayor. I think is something we should continue trying, especially in home games where we dominate possession against teams who sit back in numbers.

Thats one problem we wont have for much longer probably. I suppose it could go one of two ways: teams either realise they get serious joy when they attack us and start coming at us more (no-one sits back away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine!), or they see we cant get through two banks of four and that we are so dire at the back that we'll yield at last a couple of chances. Even QPR ripped us apart when the score was still 1:0 or 0:0.

If I was a manager i think I'd set my side up to go at us a WHL, it could pay real, real dividends. If this does start happening more and more then the tactical discussions will change I suppose and the breaking down teams who park the bus will be a moot point.

Then our real mid table battle can begin

We just don't realise were mid table yet because our reputation over the past 10 years means teams are reluctant to go at us. Once we've had a few 2:4 defeats against Villa and Saints the truth will be revealed...

 

[mattls]

All the teams that have come to WHL this season and taken points have all pressed us in possession. Last night Beskitas were doing this and we werent able to move the ball forward enough and quickly. My dilema is that under this system with the inverted wingers it leaves us stuck playing the game in the middle of the field and it just gets congested. So any team now coming to the Lane has to follow this pattern and they more than likely end up getting something from the game. Are best moments seemed to be when the opposite lost the ball and we counter attacked them.

Last night the word 'counter attacking side' kept coming up and even Sherwood afterwards said 'Spurs fans would now have to get used to a counter attacking side'. Are we now a counter attacking team? It's strange cause when i watched Soton last year under Poch they were very open and expansive and would try and out score the other team.

 

[LCLC]

My fear with all this 'takes time to implement a system' is that it is hiding the fact that we have too many players without the required skill, intelligence or athleticism to dominate games.

Levy needs to soon realise that his trusted investment in Baldini has backfired and we need to get rid of several players ASAP. Half of our squad aren't good enough. We need to face up to it and start again.

 

[diego_maradona]

Confidence is everything. Too many players are passengers right now. Out of everyone, Lamela and Kane are the only ones who don't hide. They always want it and go chasing the ball. Townsend does too I guess but he is just well... not that great.

Eriksen and Chadli (despite his goals) are often not involved enough. I expect Eriksen to demand the ball and that all of our football should go through him. He isn't a patch on Modric tbh and is a completely different player. He has some real ability though. I think Chadli does too. I'd start Kane for a while now, whether in Ade's position or even as one of the three instead of maybe Eriksen who just isn't performing right now. Eriksen has shown he can come good and do well at this level. I am an advocate for also keeping the side consistent so they can really begin to nail what Poch wants. But Kane is pushing hard and his desire deserves some reward.

 

[the dza]

Some people say that we need to play with two strikers to be more of a threat in and around the penalty area, whilst others say that we we get steamrolled in midfield if we only have 4 men in there, especially against better teams.

But it is perfectly possible to play two strikers and tell one of them to drop back when we are not in possession. The problem at times under Sherwood was that the two strikers stayed up front all the time and didn't help out defensively. Harry Kane, for example, can play slightly behind the striker, help out defenisvely like he did last night, and still be a threat in and around the box when we have the ball. I think we have tried to play in this way in our last two games, actually. Pochettino, in his post-match interview, said we played with two strikers against Arsenal in Chadli and Adebayor. I think is something we should continue trying, especially in home games where we dominate possession against teams who sit back in numbers.

I'm amazed that not many on here were talking about this when I was going on about using Chadli upfront. He was up with Ade in the first half against the goons, quite clearly two banks of 4 behind them. Was like a more defensive version of Emirates Marketing Project's 442 (when they choose to play it).

*edit* - also, with the 442 and wide players who naturally come inside and roam centrally, we can still have enough numbers in the centre (again, how Emirates Marketing Project do it when they go 442).

 

[Pirate55]

Yes, i think i would have. Poch certainly wasn't my first choice, but my points relate purely to the tools our manager has at his disposal, and not the merits of his appointment.

My attitude or thoughts on the players can be construed as positive for Pochettino: If all Spurs fans held my view of the players and the lack of quality in the squad, then Poch would get time and backing to turn it around. If we finish 11th this year I won't be surprised, and certainly won't be laying the blame at the manager's door.

I just genuinely think we have a dearth of talent in the squad, and whats worse, in crucial areas. Therefore my response to the thread was I don't see any quick tactical solution that would lead to us looking good and scoring freely. I also cant see any simple solutions in terms of personnel currently available to the manager.

I agree. We have replaced players with those vastly inferior. We needed a to notch spine. Lloris, Lovren, Sneiderlin and Benteke. Then our other "squadish, much of a muchness" players could fit around this to make the team work. At the moment we don't have a strong spine so will always struggle against teams that press us.

Baldini has a lot to answer for IMO .

 

[Gutter Boy]

I agree. We have replaced players with those vastly inferior. We needed a to notch spine. Lloris, Lovren, Sneiderlin and Benteke. Then our other "squadish, much of a muchness" players could fit around this to make the team work. At the moment we don't have a strong spine so will always struggle against teams that press us.

Baldini has a lot to answer for IMO .

Lovren and Benteke wouldn't get in our starting 11 IMO.

 

[braineclipse]

Yes, i think i would have. Poch certainly wasn't my first choice, but my points relate purely to the tools our manager has at his disposal, and not the merits of his appointment.

My attitude or thoughts on the players can be construed as positive for Pochettino: If all Spurs fans held my view of the players and the lack of quality in the squad, then Poch would get time and backing to turn it around. If we finish 11th this year I won't be surprised, and certainly won't be laying the blame at the manager's door.

I just genuinely think we have a dearth of talent in the squad, and whats worse, in crucial areas. Therefore my response to the thread was I don't see any quick tactical solution that would lead to us looking good and scoring freely. I also cant see any simple solutions in terms of personnel currently available to the manager.

But why so quick to judge our (new) players? Seeing what Poch did with players that weren't exactly heralded as coming superstars at Southampton he should at least be given time to bed in players like Fazio, Davies and Stambouli don't you think?

I agree that we have weaknesses in our squad, for sure! And we lack experience in some key areas too. As a quick example we depend on 19 year old Bentaleb and one-PL-start-soon-to-be-two Mason for creativity and quick passing in central midfield. And the average age of our attacking midfield trio of Lamela, Eriksen and Chadli is in the early twenties. This doesn't mean that there haven't been improvements or that we're (still) moving in the wrong direction though.

Thats one problem we wont have for much longer probably. I suppose it could go one of two ways: teams either realise they get serious joy when they attack us and start coming at us more (no-one sits back away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine!), or they see we cant get through two banks of four and that we are so dire at the back that we'll yield at last a couple of chances. Even QPR ripped us apart when the score was still 1:0 or 0:0.

If I was a manager i think I'd set my side up to go at us a WHL, it could pay real, real dividends. If this does start happening more and more then the tactical discussions will change I suppose and the breaking down teams who park the bus will be a moot point.

Then our real mid table battle can begin

We just don't realise were mid table yet because our reputation over the past 10 years means teams are reluctant to go at us. Once we've had a few 2:4 defeats against Villa and Saints the truth will be revealed...

Our ability to play through high pressure has been lacking for years and years. Bringing in defenders that are good on the ball (Fazio, Dier, Davies) will probably help that. There will be adjustment problems, and errors leading to goals, as we get used to this and the players get experienced in when to risk it and when not too. Long term I think what Poch is doing will help us though and teams will find it a lot harder to press us into submission.

 

[Yermiyahu]

I agree. We have replaced players with those vastly inferior. We needed a to notch spine. Lloris, Lovren, Sneiderlin and Benteke. Then our other "squadish, much of a muchness" players could fit around this to make the team work. At the moment we don't have a strong spine so will always struggle against teams that press us.

Baldini has a lot to answer for IMO .

He does, but then again, who appointed him?

 

[superfaisty]

Look we have a decent squad, no more. We have a new system which were trying to implement, so there will be plenty of bumps along the way. The team has been found out at home, so it's up to poch to change it up.

What we don't need is more upheaval. What we need is time and judging by the shower of ****e in the squad were gonna need all season!