Harry Winks

[StephenH]

I do have a preference for quick passing midfielders.

I'm not saying that we haven't been as good beacuse of Dembele. Though his very understandable lack of match fitness has been quite evident.

What I'm saying is that we've looked better when playing the 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 formation with Alli and Eriksen (or others) as two box to box midfielders ahead of Wanyama. Making the point about Winks (who the thread is about) as our only direct Dembele replacement somewhat moot, as we're looking more likely to play a different formation than bring him into the side for Dembele.

What part of my judgmeent is clouded exactly?

Your assessments of dembele and Wanyama are normally much harsher than your assessments of Lamela and Eriksen. Frankly if either Lamela or Eriksen could have an effect on our team the way Dembele did last season, or affect our offensive play in the same way as Wanyama influences our defensive play we wouldn't be having such a problem scoring goals.

Both are good post. The thing that is at the nub is "Dembele last season" he sadly looks like a spare prick at a wedding when compared to his excellent performance last season. Wanyama is doing 75% of Dembele's job he did so well last season. The 25% that left, sees him running up to the oppositions defence and for some reason passing sideways far too often.

 

[parklane1]

Both are good post. The thing that is at the nub is "Dembele last season" he sadly looks like a spare prick at a wedding when compared to his excellent performance last season. Wanyama is doing 75% of Dembele's job he did so well last season. The 25% that left, sees him running up to the oppositions defence and for some reason passing sideways far too often.

Kind of agree with this ( apart from the spare prick bit ) He has not played a lot so far but he has been poor so far ( imo); he looks more or less how he did before Poch kicked his arse and told him that the end product he was showing was not good enough. I hope he is not going to return to that again.

 

[StephenH]

I love what Wanyama does but its all yin and yang with squad balance, he has left Dembele looking like somewhat "restricted" .
When Toby comes back the same can be said for Dier. Rotation I hear you bark! Yes but Dier is a young England international in his head and I doubt will put up with a makeweight role. Wanyama is fantastic addition to the squad but his arrival is causing ripples IMHO.

 

[parklane1]

I love what Wanyama does but its all yin and yang with squad balance, he has left Dembele looking like somewhat "restricted" .
When Toby comes back the same can be said for Dier. Rotation I hear you bark! Yes but Dier is a young England international in his head and I doubt will put up with a makeweight role. Wanyama is fantastic adding to the squad but his arrival is causing ripples IMHO.

There is no doubt that Wanyama has been as good a signing for us as Toby was last season. As for Dembélé i agree he improved last season but i have to be honest and say he frustrates me still, so much class and ability but i still think he could do better.

I made a post earlier this season when i said the with his age, his injurys we/Poch may have to think about bringing/finding a player who may/will take over his role in the team. The reason i say that is IF we are ever to become a winning trophy side we need to be able to rely on a player being fit and ready more often the Dembélé.

I shall now go and get my flack jacket on.

 

[StephenH]

You can hide behind me! Because I think he will be moving on, not because he's a bad player or anything daft like that. We need more attacking penetration so playing Victor and him IMHO slows the whole team down, they call it 'transition' or some other hipster bollards these days. But whatever you call it its slower. Playing a Dele and Eriksen rotating in that position will be far more attack minded.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You can hide behind me! Because I think he will be moving on, not because he's a bad player or anything daft like that. We need more attacking penetration so playing Victor and him IMHO slows the whole team down, they call it 'transition' or some other hipster bollards these days. But whatever you call it its slower. Playing a Dele and Eriksen rotating in that position will be far more attack minded.

I wouldn't play Dele there, his aim is always to get beyond the ball, which would be a bit suicidal for that role. We would also lose a lot of our goal threat that comes from him getting himself in the box.

 

[StephenH]

I wouldn't play Dele there, his aim is always to get beyond the ball, which would be a bit suicidal for that role. We would also lose a lot of our goal threat that comes from him getting himself in the box.

Alli and Eriksen both would be responsible for the defensive duties. If we have two sitting defenders we look blunt. We need bodies in the box.

 

[braineclipse]

Your assessments of dembele and Wanyama are normally much harsher than your assessments of Lamela and Eriksen. Frankly if either Lamela or Eriksen could have an effect on our team the way Dembele did last season, or affect our offensive play in the same way as Wanyama influences our defensive play we wouldn't be having such a problem scoring goals.

I really have very little idea what this has to do with what I've written in this thread.

If Wanyama and Dembele had contributed to our buildup play and general attacking play the way better passers would have I think Lamela and Eriksen would have been more effective too. But that's kind of why I rate better passers in central midfield higher than some.

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

And what do you lot think about Harry Winks?

 

[StephenH]

And what do you lot think about Harry Winks?

Needs to go on loan and play regular first team football!
OR he stays and we sell him to Hull or whoever in 18 months

 

[braineclipse]

And what do you lot think about Harry Winks?

Has showed significant promise and Pochettino seems to rate him. One of the positives against Liverpool, his highest profile start/game so far. But when he'll get actual regular first team football is a concern. Needs to prove himself either as a sub (difficult) or in training, at least to the point where Pochettino trusts him to come on in the final 30 minutes when we need creativity and quality on the ball in central areas.

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Of what I have seen of him he has potential. Still a bit skinny, but he appears to have a positive style of play. Could his position be higher up the pitch though or is he a Ryan Mason type of player?

 

[StephenH]

Has showed significant promise and Pochettino seems to rate him. One of the positives against Liverpool, his highest profile start/game so far. But when he'll get actual regular first team football is a concern. Needs to prove himself either as a sub (difficult) or in training, at least to the point where Pochettino trusts him to come on in the final 30 minutes when we need creativity and quality on the ball in central areas.

This covers and has covered far too many of our youngsters.
I'd be tempted to put an age limit on the academy and get these players out and on loan.

 

[braineclipse]

This covers and has covered far too many of our youngsters.
I'd be tempted to put an age limit on the academy and get these players out and on loan.

Not that long ago it would also have covered Harry Kane.

Given his history with developing young players I trust Pochettino to make good decisions on these issues. I see absolutely no reason to second guess him.

 

[StephenH]

Not that long ago it would also have covered Harry Kane.

Given his history with developing young players I trust Pochettino to make good decisions on these issues. I see absolutely no reason to second guess him.

But he went out on loan?

Developing what young players?

 

[AdamB]

Of what I have seen of him he has potential. Still a bit skinny, but he appears to have a positive style of play. Could his position be higher up the pitch though or is he a Ryan Mason type of player?

More like Luka Modric if you ask me (no pressure Harry)

 

[StephenH]

More like Luka Modric if you ask me (no pressure Harry)

I'll have what your drinking

 

[braineclipse]

But he went out on loan?

Developing what young players?

He went out on loan and showed very little to indicate that he would be the PL top scorer for us not that long after. Most people on here were ready to give up on him after those loans, hardly anyone wanted him around as a realistic backup striker for us.

You're questioning what young players Pochettino has developed?

 

[StephenH]

He went out on loan and showed very little to indicate that he would be the PL top scorer for us not that long after. Most people on here were ready to give up on him after those loans, hardly anyone wanted him around as a realistic backup striker for us.

You're questioning what young players Pochettino has developed?

Yes!
Not bought developed from the academy?

 

[parklane1]

And what do you lot think about Harry Winks?

From what i have seen so far the guy has promise and ( imo) is ahead of Onomah for more games, (one of the reasons we should stay in the cups is so we can give him more games).