Harry Winks

[elltrev]

I must admit I’m disappointed in Winks. Was really excited by him when he first came on the scene (indeed, I started this thread!) But he doesn’t seem to have progressed; indeed, he seems like he might even have regressed in some ways. Just much less progressive on the ball than I thought he was going to be. I’m not sure why - maybe injuries haven’t helped? Maybe playing so often as the deepest midfielder has changed his natural game?

 

[Spur of the moment]

I must admit I’m disappointed in Winks. Was really excited by him when he first came on the scene (indeed, I started this thread!) But he doesn’t seem to have progressed; indeed, he seems like he might even have regressed in some ways. Just much less progressive on the ball than I thought he was going to be. I’m not sure why - maybe injuries haven’t helped? Maybe playing so often as the deepest midfielder has changed his natural game?

His game is all about retaining possession. He's often fine in open, fast flowing games when given lots of space and runners ahead of him.

Just cannot cope with well organised defences when all our forward players are closely marked, nor against teams that constantly come at us, because then his first instinct is to protect possession.

Seldom takes on his opponent because he doesn't really have that skill in his locker. So when he's forced to he will simply pirouette a-la Parker then pass back or sideways for safety.

 

[Raziel]

I really want to like this guy but for me he currently doesn't get the ball forward quickly enough. When he does we rip through teams, when he doesn’t we just seem so pedestrian. We seem more pedestrian than not whn he plays.

I know its not all his fault but his position is so important in terms of the tempo we play - I want him to just move the ball quicker and show us how good he can be.

It is his fault, he was picked instead of Dier to do a specific thing, pass/move the ball quickly and get it to front 4.

If people want to know what's wrong with Winks, they just need to re-watch yesterday's game and look at Winks, Sissoko, GLC and Eriksen

- Focus only on the what happens when the any of them receive the ball
- See how many touches they have before releasing the ball
- See how quickly they move or stay in same 3 yard circle
- See where the pass goes

GLC and Eriksen often one touch the pass forward, Sissoko will either pass or try to run with ball. Winks for much of that game stayed in the same 3 yard circle (not really moving), would touch the ball multiple times, then release. IT effectively killed every run anyone was making and more often than not by time he made up his mind the gaps were closed, so he passes backward.

 

[elltrev]

His game is all about retaining possession. He's often fine in open, fast flowing games when given lots of space and runners ahead of him.

Just cannot cope with well organised defences when all our forward players are closely marked, nor against teams that constantly come at us, because then his first instinct is to protect possession.

Seldom takes on his opponent because he doesn't really have that skill in his locker. So when he's forced to he will simply pirouette a-la Parker then pass back or sideways for safety.

This is the thing for me - when I first saw him I thought his game was far more progressive than just retaining possession - he seemed really proactive and brave with his passing and dribbling. His nature seems to have changed over the last few seasons for some reason.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This is the thing for me - when I first saw him I thought his game was far more progressive than just retaining possession - he seemed really proactive and brave with his passing and dribbling. His nature seems to have changed over the last few seasons for some reason.

Kane’s offside goal came form a quick pass over the top from winks
Deles first half chance came from the same
As soon as winks got booked his game changed IMO. He kinda withdrew into himself and made some poor passes
I think he wears his heart in his sleeve too much currently

 

[billyiddo]

This is the thing for me - when I first saw him I thought his game was far more progressive than just retaining possession - he seemed really proactive and brave with his passing and dribbling. His nature seems to have changed over the last few seasons for some reason.

Who was he playing alongside mostly when he first came in to the team?

Our (lack of) options in midfield have had an impact on his development, imo

 

[milo]

Our (lack of) options in midfield have had an impact on his development, imo

And lack of movement in front of him over the last season and a half limit the options for quick forward balls.

 

[NoLimits01]

Difference between Winks, Dier and Sissoko is Winks stands side on to play when receiving the ball so he can and does turn to play a quick forward pass if available or recycle the ball if nothings on.

Dier and Sissoko on the other hand receive the ball with their backs to play so they don’t know what’s going on up field and routinely return the ball back to whoever passed it to them.

 

[Bishop]

And lack of movement in front of him over the last season and a half limit the options for quick forward balls.

I don't believe that lack of movement is a good arguement for Winks. Eriksen as poor as he has been has still be able to find runners and Ndombele has done it in every single game he has appeared in.

A better arguement is that he is playing deeper than suits his abilities. His passing range and execution isn't as good as the aforementioned pair so playing so deep means due to his safety first attitude he is less willing and able to make such passes.

Given that I have to say he needs to suck it up and be more progressive because that is what we need from him and ultimately of he isn't able to do it consistently he will lose his much as has happened under Jose so far.

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[mudshark]

Difference between Winks, Dier and Sissoko is Winks stands side on to play when receiving the ball so he can and does turn to play a quick forward pass if available or recycle the ball if nothings on.

Dier and Sissoko on the other hand receive the ball with their backs to play so they don’t know what’s going on up field and routinely return the ball back to whoever passed it to them.

I watched Winks yesterday, urgently gesturing to Alderweireld that he wanted the ball off him. Good, he plans to turn into that massive space behind him, I thought. Alderweireld duly passed it, whereupon Winks, without taking a touch, knocked it straight back to him. I remember, because I laughed out loud.

 

[braineclipse]

I don't believe that lack of movement is a good arguement for Winks. Eriksen as poor as he has been has still be able to find runners and Ndombele has done it in every single game he has appeared in.

A better arguement is that he is playing deeper than suits his abilities. His passing range and execution isn't as good as the aforementioned pair so playing so deep means due to his safety first attitude he is less willing and able to make such passes.

Given that I have to say he needs to suck it up and be more progressive because that is what we need from him and ultimately of he isn't able to do it consistently he will lose his much as has happened under Jose so far.

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I agree that they're better at that. Quite a standard to compare him to given the fee we paid for Ndombele and the fee an under contract in form Eriksen would command.

Both of those have other weaknesses. Eriksen isn't defensively sound enough to be started in central midfield (so far at least). Ndombele hasn't finished 90 minutes in the PL yet I think and isn't making himself the clear starter we all hoped he would.

Winks arguably isn't good enough to get where we want to be. Perhaps he will improve and become that player, perhaps not. He's doing a decent job doing what others are failing to do.

 

[Bishop]

I agree that they're better at that. Quite a standard to compare him to given the fee we paid for Ndombele and the fee an under contract in form Eriksen would command.

Both of those have other weaknesses. Eriksen isn't defensively sound enough to be started in central midfield (so far at least). Ndombele hasn't finished 90 minutes in the PL yet I think and isn't making himself the clear starter we all hoped he would.

Winks arguably isn't good enough to get where we want to be. Perhaps he will improve and become that player, perhaps not. He's doing a decent job doing what others are failing to do.

I don't disagree that its a high standard to reach but that's what he needs to do to keep his place and help us develop in the long run. I prefer him in there to seeing Sissoko/Dier because he is a better passer than them and quite easily so. I just want him to be a little bit less safe and add the danger element to his game, he needs it and we need it too.

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[NoLimits01]

I watched Winks yesterday, urgently gesturing to Alderweireld that he wanted the ball off him. Good, he plans to turn into that massive space behind him, I thought. Alderweireld duly passed it, whereupon Winks, without taking a touch, knocked it straight back to him. I remember, because I laughed out loud.

Oh, well there you go, if you saw him do it once then he must do it every time because it’s always that black and white.

 

[Bishop]

Oh, well there you go, if you saw him do it once then he must do it every time because it’s always that black and white.

He does it fairly often though let's be honest. Sissoko and Dier do the same, even worse though they actively hide behind the opposition press.

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[elltrev]

Oh, well there you go, if you saw him do it once then he must do it every time because it’s always that black and white.

Ah, it’s so refreshing to see a needlessly sarcastic and pugnacious post in the sea of balanced rationality that is GG.

 

[NoLimits01]

Ah, it’s so refreshing to see a needlessly sarcastic and pugnacious post in the sea of balanced rationality that is GG.

Oh grow up

 

[NoLimits01]

He does it fairly often though let's be honest. Sissoko and Dier do the same, even worse though they actively hide behind the opposition press.

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My argument is that he doesn’t do it anywhere near as frequently as Dier or Sissoko, he is far from perfect but he is the best we have in that position at the moment.

 

[Cochise]

He did spot Kane and put him through on goal.

On the downside, he was putting in a few desperate sliding challenges that he was lucky to escape with just 1 yellow.

 

[harr1984]

Who was he playing alongside mostly when he first came in to the team?

Our (lack of) options in midfield have had an impact on his development, imo

This constant player x,y or z is only not very good because he’s not playing with better CMs is nonsense. Hear exactly the same excuses for Dier. Funny how NDombele came in and instantly looked a cut above, good players will stand out and drag the levels of the not so good players up. Winks hasn’t been good enough for some time, same with Dier. Any player who needs better players next to them in order to look good really isn’t all that....

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't believe that lack of movement is a good arguement for Winks. Eriksen as poor as he has been has still be able to find runners and Ndombele has done it in every single game he has appeared in.

A better arguement is that he is playing deeper than suits his abilities. His passing range and execution isn't as good as the aforementioned pair so playing so deep means due to his safety first attitude he is less willing and able to make such passes.

Given that I have to say he needs to suck it up and be more progressive because that is what we need from him and ultimately of he isn't able to do it consistently he will lose his much as has happened under Jose so far.

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There were numerous occasions in the match were Dele was starting runs and not spotted.