Going backwards

[El Guepardo]

We played slowly against Arsenal too often and against Emirates Marketing Project last season. It's always frustrating, if we don't attack with pace, we'll give the opposition more time to get behind the ball. Whereas, look at the speed that FC Sheriff got forward and caught us up the pitch. Why can't we do that more to other teams?

We used to be a great counter attacking force, even if that wasn't our main style, where did that go?

 

[Mumorn]

Playing slowly against Arsenal usually helps us. When we beat Arsenal it's usually because theyve battered us but we've defended well and knicked goals on the break but our possession has always been slow against them and just holding the ball to keep it. When we actually battered them (this year), they did exactly that to us, defended well and tried nicking goals on the break.

Didnt we beat Emirates Marketing Project 3-1?

 

[El Guepardo]

Playing slowly against Arsenal usually helps us. When we beat Arsenal it's usually because theyve battered us but we've defended well and knicked goals on the break but our possession has always been slow against them and just holding the ball to keep it. When we actually battered them (this year), they did exactly that to us, defended well and tried nicking goals on the break.

Didnt we beat Emirates Marketing Project 3-1?

Sorry. I didn't make it clear but I was referring to the away game.

 

[El Guepardo]

Ok, firstly can I state that against modern beliefs, I would not rather see us lose 4-2 than to win 1-0. I am very happy when we win any game. I am questioning the mentality which sees us repeatedly pass the ball back to the keeper in positions where we could be better going forward. I am questioning the limited pace that often exists in our play and thinking that perhaps, with greater movement and faster play we could be more effective. Our movement at times is poor, you can see the number of times our players look around for a good pass and struggle to find one and I think at times that is why we end up passing the ball backwards.

I would also like us to be making those fast counter attack plays that we did in the past. I would like to see more of a range in the pace that we can play at.

I fully understand that against negative sides, we're going to struggle to get any fluidity as they continually try to shut us down but we can still vary the pace of play and show more movement. Additionally, I think we lack width at times, our inverted winger system can see us over crowded in the centre of the pitch when we could pull play wide and make good of wingers in their true roles. I think that if Townsend and Lennon were delivering crosses, that Soldado could end up scoring more often from these plays once he understood the patterns of crosses that we were delivering and providing that the crosses were of a good quality.

I think our play has reflected the need for attacking full backs. We need Walker and Rose fit and in the team to help provide us this width. In addition to this, we need good reserve players who are of the same ilk as Walker and Rose. Naughton and Fryers really don't cut it in terms of their style or their quality for me. We need marauding full backs who can offer up extra width and can pull the game wide too, which will open up spaces in the centre of the pitch so that the play becomes less laboured providing that our other players are still moving as freely as they can to provide options for passes.

At the moment, I am merely suggesting ways that I feel that our play can be improved. I ultimately want the best for our club, and perhaps reviewing the way that we play is an important part of getting the best. I will support us as strongly if we were bottom of the league, as I would if we were top of the league but I see no harm in suggesting improvement could be made. The majority of posters on here have made suggestions about different players that they want us to sign or players that they don't want us to field. Does that make them any less of a Spurs fan? Because they want the best for the club. No.

 

[the dza]

Re. fast counter-attacks of seasons gone by, I don't think the lack of these is down to our slow build-up. I think if a team has comitted men forward against us and we can break, then we will. BUT, we often don't have that many fast players in the attacking positions right now. For league games, we have Townsend and erm...that's about it. Sig, Soldado, Eriksen, Holtby, Chadli....none of these players are quick. Defoe isn't quick. Lennon is, but he has been out. Lamela might have a bit more pace, but we haven't really seen him.

So the lack of counter-attacking threat can be put down to a lack of pace in our forward players, imo. Most of our pace is in defence at the minute (Walker, Rose, Kaboul, Chiriches, even Lloris).

 

[Pirate55]

Ok, firstly can I state that against modern beliefs, I would not rather see us lose 4-2 than to win 1-0. I am very happy when we win any game. I am questioning the mentality which sees us repeatedly pass the ball back to the keeper in positions where we could be better going forward. I am questioning the limited pace that often exists in our play and thinking that perhaps, with greater movement and faster play we could be more effective. Our movement at times is poor, you can see the number of times our players look around for a good pass and struggle to find one and I think at times that is why we end up passing the ball backwards.

I would also like us to be making those fast counter attack plays that we did in the past. I would like to see more of a range in the pace that we can play at.

I fully understand that against negative sides, we're going to struggle to get any fluidity as they continually try to shut us down but we can still vary the pace of play and show more movement. Additionally, I think we lack width at times, our inverted winger system can see us over crowded in the centre of the pitch when we could pull play wide and make good of wingers in their true roles. I think that if Townsend and Lennon were delivering crosses, that Soldado could end up scoring more often from these plays once he understood the patterns of crosses that we were delivering and providing that the crosses were of a good quality.

I think our play has reflected the need for attacking full backs. We need Walker and Rose fit and in the team to help provide us this width. In addition to this, we need good reserve players who are of the same ilk as Walker and Rose. Naughton and Fryers really don't cut it in terms of their style or their quality for me. We need marauding full backs who can offer up extra width and can pull the game wide too, which will open up spaces in the centre of the pitch so that the play becomes less laboured providing that our other players are still moving as freely as they can to provide options for passes.

At the moment, I am merely suggesting ways that I feel that our play can be improved. I ultimately want the best for our club, and perhaps reviewing the way that we play is an important part of getting the best. I will support us as strongly if we were bottom of the league, as I would if we were top of the league but I see no harm in suggesting improvement could be made. The majority of posters on here have made suggestions about different players that they want us to sign or players that they don't want us to field. Does that make them any less of a Spurs fan? Because they want the best for the club. No.

=D>

 

[El Guepardo]

Re. fast counter-attacks of seasons gone by, I don't think the lack of these is down to our slow build-up. I think if a team has comitted men forward against us and we can break, then we will. BUT, we often don't have that many fast players in the attacking positions right now. For league games, we have Townsend and erm...that's about it. Sig, Soldado, Eriksen, Holtby, Chadli....none of these players are quick. Defoe isn't quick. Lennon is, but he has been out. Lamela might have a bit more pace, but we haven't really seen him.

So the lack of counter-attacking threat can be put down to a lack of pace in our forward players, imo. Most of our pace is in defence at the minute (Walker, Rose, Kaboul, Chiriches, even Lloris).

Sometimes counter attacking football can stem from quick thinking, just as much as it can from quick movement. When we get the ball, we need to identify areas that we can expose, move in to those positions and then work the passes so that we can get in to areas within which we can hurt our opponents. Our pace is a bonus, if we can exploit the gaps with the right strategy.

In terms of counter attacking strategies, one such strategy that can be employed effectively;

When we concede a corner, we need to have our quickest players in areas to break. We need a defender on the front post and then use the tallest players to try to get the ball away. I think we need a good passer outside the box to whom we can get the ball to and he can then launch an attack. The passer then becomes a footballing equivalent of a quarter back, someone who can hurt the opposition by finding range quickly and helping develop the attacking moves. People will often argue that we will get outnumbered in the box if we have players ready to break but there are two reasons why this is less of a problem than it seems;

1. The opposition are likely to want to defend against the players who can break from our side. For that reason, they may have less players attacking the corner and so we will need less players to defend against them.

2. We are a threat on the counter so, yes they may be a threat from the corner but we are more likely to pose a more serious risk to the opposition's defence as we have the ball in open play and can use it effectively to carve open strong chances. As such, we risk conceding more but we improve the chances of scoring ourselves.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Great post EG =D>

The way I see it is this.

This calender year we have scored 3 goals in a game in only 3 out of 26 league games, we never once scored four or more.

Here is our form so far this calender year.

P26 W15 D7 L4 F36 A25 GD 13+ Pts 52

We have averaged 2 points a game, scoring 1.44 goals a game and conceding 0.96 a game. If you were times that by 38 your season would like this

P38 F55 A38 GD 17+ Pts 76

To put that into context this is how we finished last season in the same fields

P38 F66 A46 GD 20+ Pts 72

The problem is alarmingly clear, our goals scored would drop by 11, an overall decrease of 18.3% also our goal difference would have dropped by 3 thus leaving us very vulnerable if we were to finish level on points with anyone. But our points would increase by four to 76 - a total number of points that has never finished lower than 4th in PL history even during the days of 22 teams - whilst goals against would decrease by 8.

The point that I am trying to make is that as a result of the lack of goals what AVB is doing is not just preventing us from having the sought of implosion that we saw get Ramos the sack at the beginning of the 2008/09 season but by playing the way we are he is keeping us competitive and not only doing that but improving us, albeit slowly. Also you we do get a fair few teams park the bus against us. This style of play, this 4-2-3-1 was all planned to be used until were are able to score more but also once we are scoring more then we could still have the strong the defence we have now which is having to compensate, put the two together then the GD could potentially be very high.

You have to remember that AVB is determined to win, much in the same way as Mourinho although is less dirty and pathetic, even if it means sacrificing the style of play that he loves and we all hoped he would install as we feel it would go along with the entrenched 'Tottenham way'. I don't think AVB is just compensating, nor is it just the fact that there are nine new squad players (two returning from loans and 7 new signings) having to be settled whilst he finds his best XI nor is it just his own confession at the end of last season that he under estimated the PL and realised that he would have to change from a purely attacking game to a more counter attacking game but simply a combination of all of the above. I admit that is very frustrating at times and also it looks so poor but the overall result is that we're improving and hopefully when things look more stable then we go on to be more attacking and more effective on the ball.

The truth is, you have to play to your strengths and currently scoring and adventure hasn't been one.

 

[johnola]

EG.

I agree about the fullbacks. Rose and Walker are clearly forest choice but I even have reservations even then. In terms,s of penetrating the rigid defensive lines we will encounter frequently this season we definitely Ned consistent overlapping options which also permits our creative players space to work on the inside.

AVB had reasons not to use the first choice FBS and is very likely to have instructed naughton and fryers to focus on defensive duties. Having seen Sheriffs attacking capabilities that seems a sensible strategy.

 

[Modric THFC]

Playing it backwards is a symptom of the way we play at the moment.
The real cause is our players are afraid to play the ball into the feet of a player that is anyway marked.
Instead they'll play a 'safe' pass until the ball ends up back with the keeper.

Now what i want to know is this under instruction from AVB? Or are the likes likes of Dembele and Paulinho unwilling to take a risk themselves.
When Modric was playing he loved received the ball while tightly marked and jinking around the opponent and passing it on.

You can see Lamela when he playing complaining that he's not getting the ball. He doesnt realise he has to be in an acre of space before anyone thinks its alight to pass to him.
You can see we create more chances from runs at long and shots than any passing move.
When he attempt passes its always for players to run on to. To use their physically to beat their opponent not their skill.

There seems to be a complete lacking of belief from most of our players that their teammate is capable of receiving the ball and doing something with it under pressure.

The players talk about winning the league when prompted in interviews but on the pitch we play like we're trying not to lose. Instead of a sense of 'to dare is to do', we play with a fear of the opposition.