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Frank Give him time or get rid?

Thomas Frank give him time or get rid?

  • Give him until the summer

  • Give him until Christmas

  • Get rid now


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https://theanalyst.com/articles/tottenham-thomas-frank-stats-premier-league-expected-points

Tottenham’s Champions League Position Cannot Save Doomed Thomas Frank​


Tottenham’s underlying numbers are as bad as their Premier League position suggests. There is little reason to believe Thomas Frank can turn this around and save Spurs’ season.

Small section .. full article at link above

Spurs have won the ‘xG battle’ (generated more expected goals than their opponents) in just eight of their 22 Premier League games this season. Only Burnley, Fulham and West Ham have won on xG fewer times than them.

What’s more, of Tottenham’s eight xG victories, four have come at home when they have gone behind and been chasing the game, and their opponents have dropped back to defend their lead – against Liverpool, Fulham, Aston Villa and Manchester United. Spurs lost the first three matches in that list and drew with United.

These numbers do highlight one limitation of xG. Spurs might have won on xG against Liverpool and Fulham, for example, but on both occasions that was largely the result of them going 2-0 down and fighting their way back into the game late on against a team who were happy to sit on their lead. Expected goals doesn’t take into account game state.

Opta’s expected points model runs into similar problems, but it is useful nonetheless in trying to work out where teams ‘deserve’ to be in the league. The model simulates the number of goals scored by each side in a match based on the xG value of every shot taken, and then simulates every match 10,000 times and assigns points to either team from the proportion of those sims they won, drew and lost. The idea is that over a period of time, xG data can tell us how well or badly a team is creating chances, thus giving a better indication than the actual table of how everyone is really playing.

Throughout Frank’s reign, Spurs have persistently overachieved compared to their underlying numbers. After nine games of the season, for example, Spurs were third in the Premier League, but the xPts table had them down in 13th. In other words, their performances were worthy of enough points to be 13th in the league. No team had a bigger difference between their actual and ‘expected’ positions. This graphic shows that, rather than the 17 points they actually had, their underlying numbers suggested they deserved 11.2 xPts.

Knowing what we know now, these were warning signs from back in October that things were going to head south. And so it proved, as Spurs now find themselves 14th in the Premier League (while they are still 13th in the xPts table). They have sunk to a position their underlying numbers suggested was on the cards months ago. The table right now is a far better reflection of Spurs’ displays.
 
https://theanalyst.com/articles/tottenham-thomas-frank-stats-premier-league-expected-points

Tottenham’s Champions League Position Cannot Save Doomed Thomas Frank​


Tottenham’s underlying numbers are as bad as their Premier League position suggests. There is little reason to believe Thomas Frank can turn this around and save Spurs’ season.

Small section .. full article at link above

Spurs have won the ‘xG battle’ (generated more expected goals than their opponents) in just eight of their 22 Premier League games this season. Only Burnley, Fulham and West Ham have won on xG fewer times than them.

What’s more, of Tottenham’s eight xG victories, four have come at home when they have gone behind and been chasing the game, and their opponents have dropped back to defend their lead – against Liverpool, Fulham, Aston Villa and Manchester United. Spurs lost the first three matches in that list and drew with United.

These numbers do highlight one limitation of xG. Spurs might have won on xG against Liverpool and Fulham, for example, but on both occasions that was largely the result of them going 2-0 down and fighting their way back into the game late on against a team who were happy to sit on their lead. Expected goals doesn’t take into account game state.

Opta’s expected points model runs into similar problems, but it is useful nonetheless in trying to work out where teams ‘deserve’ to be in the league. The model simulates the number of goals scored by each side in a match based on the xG value of every shot taken, and then simulates every match 10,000 times and assigns points to either team from the proportion of those sims they won, drew and lost. The idea is that over a period of time, xG data can tell us how well or badly a team is creating chances, thus giving a better indication than the actual table of how everyone is really playing.

Throughout Frank’s reign, Spurs have persistently overachieved compared to their underlying numbers. After nine games of the season, for example, Spurs were third in the Premier League, but the xPts table had them down in 13th. In other words, their performances were worthy of enough points to be 13th in the league. No team had a bigger difference between their actual and ‘expected’ positions. This graphic shows that, rather than the 17 points they actually had, their underlying numbers suggested they deserved 11.2 xPts.

Knowing what we know now, these were warning signs from back in October that things were going to head south. And so it proved, as Spurs now find themselves 14th in the Premier League (while they are still 13th in the xPts table). They have sunk to a position their underlying numbers suggested was on the cards months ago. The table right now is a far better reflection of Spurs’ displays.

Where I would defend Frank on this is a point that it makes in this article. XG doesn’t take into account game state and Frank’s approach is all about taking it into account.
 
I have said it before and i will say it again. Xg has so many fans thinking it is the bible and explains everything. It does not and their are so many fans who believe it is the BIBLE, when in reality it just another stat which in most cases is misused far too much.

Having worked in football coaching most of my life it really gets blown out of importance. It is a usful tool but it is followed by so many fans as being far more important then it is. Each to their own i guess.
 
I have said it before and i will say it again. Xg has so many fans thinking it is the bible and explains everything. It does not and their are so many fans who believe it is the BIBLE, when in reality it just another stat which in most cases is misused far too much.

Having worked in football coaching most of my life it really gets blown out of importance. It is a usful tool but it is followed by so many fans as being far more important then it is. Each to their own i guess.

Amen.
 
I have said it before and i will say it again. Xg has so many fans thinking it is the bible and explains everything. It does not and their are so many fans who believe it is the BIBLE, when in reality it just another stat which in most cases is misused far too much.

Having worked in football coaching most of my life it really gets blown out of importance. It is a usful tool but it is followed by so many fans as being far more important then it is. Each to their own i guess.

I'd go further and say it's complete flimflam. Most sports are about flow and momentum, which is something you can't quantify. Xg is just an attempt to bring more stats into spectating to try and Americanise it. Possession is probably the most useful stat in football, but even that doesn't tell much story (counter-attacking teams don't desire it). So no - just use empirical data as fans and ignore the nonsense.
 
I'd go further and say it's complete flimflam. Most sports are about flow and momentum, which is something you can't quantify. Xg is just an attempt to bring more stats into spectating to try and Americanise it. Possession is probably the most useful stat in football, but even that doesn't tell much story (counter-attacking teams don't desire it). So no - just use empirical data as fans and ignore the nonsense.

I wouldn't, like all data, used in isolation and in too small a sample size, it can be flimflam.

But when you combine it with other things across enough games to show a trend, and most importantly with eye test as well, it can show/confirm things.

Our xG,+dependance on set pieces, +lack of possession overall, +lack of through balls, +fact that 3 of our top scorers in the team are defenders, + position on table, +eye test = a very clear statement on a side struglling to produce consistent attacking patterns and intent.

In the article above it acknowledges some of the challenges but it also shows our league position from earlier in season corrected to mean as the data indicated it would.
 
One thing I’ve never understood about xG is does it take into account who is shooting? The xG for a chance surely depends on what player is shooting and from where. A shot from outside the area is given a standardised numerical value but a shot from Kane would have more chance of going in than Gregor Raziak having a pop
 
Emery screams at Tielemans, with a small grapple as he leaves the pitch

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