Frank Give him time or get rid?

[Finney Is Back]

Sonny & Johnson
Kulu, Madders, Solanke not played a minute this season
That is 80+ goals and assists we've lost

No wonder we've been struggling

We sold the two on the first line and knew the first two on the second line were out for pretty much the whole season before the season started.

We should've found a much better way to play without those players (whether that was through making signings or coaching).

 

[Raziel]

Sonny & Johnson
Kulu, Madders, Solanke not played a minute this season
That is 80+ goals and assists we've lost

No wonder we've been struggling

Issue is, it's not like we have been drawing a bunch of games 0-0 or losing 1-0 (we concede more than a goal a game)

Would those players help? of course but it really feels like it would be nothing more than relying solely on individual quality to bail out a lack of approach.

We sold the two on the first line and knew the first two on the second line were out for pretty much the whole season before the season started.

We should've found a much better way to play without those players (whether that was through making signings or coaching).

Exactly, and while people brick on Richi, Tel, RKM, Kudus, Xavi, it's not like we give any of them 5 or 6 real chances a match that they miss/fudge up, that we are creating this massive xG that lack of quality to finish is the issue.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Somewhat agree

- We want someone who will defend the club and be happy to have aspirations (Ange was good at it)
- We don't want someone who will make us feel they are doing us a favor (Jose/Conte)
- For me the definition of front foot is more, we should aim to own possession (not concede possession without reason), we should have structure (it should look like we are a coached team) and the system should allow one or two of our maverick type players the ability to cause chaos (Deki, Maddison, Kudus, Xavi, maybe even Bergvall and Tel in this squad come to mind)

But, and this may come across the wrong way, the club needs to understand what having season tickets is like, that commitment of time (for me 6-8 hours minimum), the costs of not just the ticket, but additional matchday costs, to do that for 2-3 weeks a month, to watch your team play brick and get rolled over more often that a decent performance is unacceptable, it creates the apathy or toxicity, it drags the club down. All of that to say, both the manager and the squad should be good enough to make our stadium somewhere we win, and somewhere the opposition don't want to come.

And I'm sure some who have known me on this board for a long time, may look at that list of criteria and laugh, say it fits one person (@thfcsteff ?)

Really good post and I agree with pretty much all of it. I’m 41 now which is relatively young but I’ve already started to evaluate things I like doing vs things I don’t like doing. I’m much more selective with my free time because I realise it’s finite. I only live around 1.5 hours from the ground door to door but like you, I don’t want to make the effort to get to and from the game to not enjoy the experience. That walk to Seven Sisters station feels much longer after a lacklustre defeat.

 

[Daisuk]

Harry is not wrong, is he? Then again, would our players be better with a better fit manager? I’d like to think so.

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[lurker of old]

Just read a fantastic article in the Telegraph online which uses loads of data to show that sacking managers mid season is generally a waste of time and money.
It ends with this:
Whether in the success of Brentford and Brighton, or the continued underperformance of Tottenham and United, managers reflect the quality of the institutions around them. Twenty First Group shows that the correlation between how an individual head coach performs when he moves clubs is far weaker than the correlation between how one coach at a club performs and his successor. To gauge how well a coach will fare in his new job, the best predictor is how well his predecessor performed.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Sonny & Johnson
Kulu, Madders, Solanke not played a minute this season
That is 80+ goals and assists we've lost

No wonder we've been struggling

And not only are that but the players who made the progressive passes to get us into attacking third have largely been absent too; only 3 out of our top 10 from last season are even available for selection currently.

 

[Mabspurs]

And not only are that but the players who made the progressive passes to get us into attacking third have largely been absent too; only 3 out of our top 10 from last season are even available for selection currently.

View attachment 21220

Yes - but that does not fit with the "Frank out" agenda, does it?

 

[Finney Is Back]

And not only are that but the players who made the progressive passes to get us into attacking third have largely been absent too; only 3 out of our top 10 from last season are even available for selection currently.

View attachment 21220

A better comparison would be how many have those same players who are still here made this season compared to last.

 

[Raziel]

Just read a fantastic article in the Telegraph online which uses loads of data to show that sacking managers mid season is generally a waste of time and money.
It ends with this:
Whether in the success of Brentford and Brighton, or the continued underperformance of Tottenham and United, managers reflect the quality of the institutions around them. Twenty First Group shows that the correlation between how an individual head coach performs when he moves clubs is far weaker than the correlation between how one coach at a club performs and his successor. To gauge how well a coach will fare in his new job, the best predictor is how well his predecessor performed.

Well every coach pre Frank in Spurs for the last 20+ years has achieved at least top 6 in their first full season? So that statement would say Frank is the problem?

 

[Aldo]

Yes I get it, but regardless I would take Frank over a guy who is 78 and last managed 9 years ago ....

I agree…but, tell that to Celtic fans

 

[Yiddo]

And not only are that but the players who made the progressive passes to get us into attacking third have largely been absent too; only 3 out of our top 10 from last season are even available for selection currently.

View attachment 21220

Thats a little bit misleading, i have seen Porro pass forward to a right winger with 3 players around him, receive the ball back and then pass backwards. You would expect the Full backs to be near the top as they have the whole final third to pass into. Loads of gonads things like this IMO.

 

[Bishop]

I'd give him until the end of the season as I can't see who we would get in the mean time. At the end of the season evaluate whether there's been any progression and decide from there.

 

[lurker of old]

Well every coach pre Frank in Spurs for the last 20+ years has achieved at least top 6 in their first full season? So that statement would say Frank is the problem?
Well that's one interpretation. The other is that we were simply dreadful in the League last season.........

 

[Raziel]

I'd give him until the end of the season as I can't see who we would get in the mean time. At the end of the season evaluate whether there's been any progression and decide from there.

Serious question, what would be progression? we have already lost 11 games this season, we are out of the domestic cups extremely early, we could easily lose very game in February, season could easily end with another 20+ losses

Even if Frank goes on some crazy run from March (let's say he wins 8 out of the last 11, we have won 7 of our first 21) it will still be a brick season.

The question is when, not if we fire him, now or in summer, therefore it's nothing but a lack of courage, planning and strategy that keeps him in role.

An interim, with a new manager bounce could get us results in the next 3 games which really would impact the season, lose those 3 and it's an even bigger hole.

 

[Eriktheviking]

Serious question, what would be progression? we have already lost 11 games this season, we are out of the domestic cups extremely early, we could easily lose very game in February, season could easily end with another 20+ losses

Even if Frank goes on some crazy run from March (let's say he wins 8 out of the last 11, we have won 7 of our first 21) it will still be a brick season.

The question is when, not if we fire him, now or in summer, therefore it's nothing but a lack of courage, planning and strategy that keeps him in role.

An interim, with a new manager bounce could get us results in the next 3 games which really would impact the season, lose those 3 and it's an even bigger hole.

Beyond the first 2 games of the season TF has had nowhere near first choice 11 fit. Got a shirt first round FA cup draw to a fine Villa side which is flying and lost 1-2 and an away tie at Saudi Sportswashing Machine where we get pumped most games in recent seasons. The guy had had sod all go for him.

I’ll call it now, Poch is the summer is more or less nailed on and he will tank.