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Franco Baldini

I think the issue we always seem to have is strong team, poor backups. Same under redknapp, same now. The issue that we have now has been reversed at the kids have taken over due to a change in style..

Our structure seems to be pretty clear to me

The manager or head coach should be concentrating on the first team coaching, planning etc.
The player identification team (Mitchell) is identifying which players could fit our style of play
The youth team manager manages the youth team players

The DOF sits above all of these with links to agents to know current state of market

Therefore the only way you can run transfers is by committee, the manager saying what he needs, the player identifier saying players who meet this criteria, the youth team manager saying who may be coming through and when they could be ready. The DOF then saying who is available and the budget available from the chairman
 
braineclipse said:
Possibly, but I see no real evidence of that in our transfer history. Do you?



We've dipped since Modric left. We were clearly not as good overall, or reach the same league position, in AVB's first season after Modric left. We then regressed a bit more after Bale left.

Baldini, like Pochettino, has been overseeing a massive change in the squad though. Not only trying to fill the gaps left by Modric and Bale, but also a whole host of other changes, primarily due to age. Generation shift as well as losing King, Modric and Bale over a 3 year period. If there was no regression it would have been a huge achievement. If we can bounce back relatively quickly (next season) to where we were that would also be rather good imo.
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No real evidence other than rumors and intuition ;)


I agree that it has been a natural 'decline' since Bale left, but i think it's fair to say that things haven't been managed as well as they could have since that moment.
 
if he was useless surely Levy would have binned him off already, he clearly doesn't mind paying off a contract when he wants a change

i've said it before but we shouldn't be so quick to write him off, remember when we sacked Comolli for all the crap he signed only for them to then reach the potential he had seen, BAE and Bale for example

you can't judge a DoF in 2 years in imo, its a long term posting, he gets beaten around the head for the signings in his first summer but I don't believe for a second Levy signs a transfer off without us looking hard at a player for at least 12 months, no way that the Soldado and Lamela deals came out of thin air in the 2 weeks after he arrived, we'd have been talking to Valencia and Roma for Months, Baldini probably put more work into the Lamela deal from Roma's side than he did for ours
 
Jurgen the German said:
We have dropped from a team challenging for the top 4 to a team that is fighting for a place in the top 6. Not a massive drop off, but we have regressed.

I'd say we have dipped since Bale left. The league position will ultimately determine whether this season is judged as progress. We look better going forward, but just as bad (if not worse) defensively.
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There is your answer, the issue was losing a world class player and not who was our director of football. Few clubs of our size do not suffer fluctuations in form, particularly after losing their best player. The best chance that we have of doing that is building a squad that is less reliant on star players, I think that we have made progress towards doing this but it has been one step back to (hopefully) take two steps forward.
 
imcallingbullsh*t said:
I think the issue we always seem to have is strong team, poor backups. Same under redknapp, same now. The issue that we have now has been reversed at the kids have taken over due to a change in style..

Our structure seems to be pretty clear to me

The manager or head coach should be concentrating on the first team coaching, planning etc.
The player identification team (Mitchell) is identifying which players could fit our style of play
The youth team manager manages the youth team players

The DOF sits above all of these with links to agents to know current state of market

Therefore the only way you can run transfers is by committee, the manager saying what he needs, the player identifier saying players who meet this criteria, the youth team manager saying who may be coming through and when they could be ready. The DOF then saying who is available and the budget available from the chairman
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Agree much, but who sets the philosophy? Maybe it's like an annual corporate retreat that corporations have - Levy chairs it and makes the three of them review the wider football scene, take stock of what's within reach and where they should be building towards 3, 5, 10 years from now.
 
galeforce said:
if he was useless surely Levy would have binned him off already, he clearly doesn't mind paying off a contract when he wants a change

i've said it before but we shouldn't be so quick to write him off, remember when we sacked Comolli for all the crap he signed only for them to then reach the potential he had seen, BAE and Bale for example

you can't judge a DoF in 2 years in imo, its a long term posting, he gets beaten around the head for the signings in his first summer but I don't believe for a second Levy signs a transfer off without us looking hard at a player for at least 12 months, no way that the Soldado and Lamela deals came out of thin air in the 2 weeks after he arrived, we'd have been talking to Valencia and Roma for Months, Baldini probably put more work into the Lamela deal from Roma's side than he did for ours
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Agreed. And what we can't really know from the outside, what kind of input Baldini had in the various signings that happened with the Bale money, Levy will have full knowledge of. If Levy hasn't gotten rid of him yet, it's probably because he'd doing a decent job.
 
braineclipse said:
Agreed. And what we can't really know from the outside, what kind of input Baldini had in the various signings that happened with the Bale money, Levy will have full knowledge of. If Levy hasn't gotten rid of him yet, it's probably because he'd doing a decent job.
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Would agree with this, however for many he is the whipping boy too a lot fans who always have to have one.
 
parklane1 said:
Would agree with this, however for many he is the whipping boy too a lot fans who always have to have one.
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Yep. Football has become a soap opera for many with people cast as heroes and villians. The fact that in reality it is shades of grey, form fluctuates and that events beyond your control happen are lost on these people.
 
milo said:
There is your answer, the issue was losing a world class player and not who was our director of football. Few clubs of our size do not suffer fluctuations in form, particularly after losing their best player. The best chance that we have of doing that is building a squad that is less reliant on star players, I think that we have made progress towards doing this but it has been one step back to (hopefully) take two steps forward.
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But you would have to say that SO FAR, only two of the players he has signed look like good players. Just Eriksen and Chadli from S Club 7 look any good.
 
Jurgen the German said:
But you would have to say that SO FAR, only two of the players he has signed look like good players. Just Eriksen and Chadli from S Club 7 look any good.
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And, again, only those intimately familiar with the workings of the committee will know what Baldini's input on those various deals was.
 
billyiddo said:
It's the same vice versa

Meh people always seem to need to blame/praise one person in particular for bad/good transfers and i guess what puts people off with this setup is there's not enough room for blame placing.
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OK fair enough. Makes it very hard for us to evaluate him either way but all the same. So I would expect people to say the same thing if people rush to congratulate him next season if Lamela and Paulinho come good?
 
Jurgen the German said:
Definite I would go along with, but there is room for some comments on him surely?
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Sure. So far the first team signings under him have been rather unimpressive, but he's also made some very good signings and probably knows what he's doing. Glad to have him around. Will be interesting to see how some of his more long term signings work out, and how he will do with what will hopefully be a bit more stability over the next couple of seasons. So far he's been in he job less than 2 years, he's seen two permanent head coaches, one somewhere in between a caretaker and a permanent coach in addition to that. We've lost our best player and will have replaced what feels like at least about a dozen more by the time next season starts.
 
braineclipse said:
Sure. So far the first team signings under him have been rather unimpressive, but he's also made some very good signings and probably knows what he's doing. Glad to have him around. Will be interesting to see how some of his more long term signings work out, and how he will do with what will hopefully be a bit more stability over the next couple of seasons. So far he's been in he job less than 2 years, he's seen two permanent head coaches, one somewhere in between a caretaker and a permanent coach in addition to that. We've lost our best player and will have replaced what feels like at least about a dozen more by the time next season starts.
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Yes but if his job is mostly just to negotiate incoming transfers then he's done a real good job. We now sign players. We dont fall short in bids and have chairmen complaining about Levy taking the tinkle.
 
Modric THFC said:
Yes but if his job is mostly just to negotiate incoming transfers then he's done a real good job. We now sign players. We dont fall short in bids and have chairmen complaining about Levy taking the tinkle.
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I doubt that's his entire job, but I should have course be wrong.
 
Jurgen the German said:
OK fair enough. Makes it very hard for us to evaluate him either way but all the same. So I would expect people to say the same thing if people rush to congratulate him next season if Lamela and Paulinho come good?
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Well i can't speak for others - chances are posters will still blame/praise as they see fit and this argument will re surface and we'll all be saying the same things to one another.

Personally i don't get hung up on individual deals - better to look at the bigger picture and see if there's any patterns. Ultimately though i think if Baldini wasn't doing his job then Levy wouldn't waste money employing him or giving him responsibilities in the transfer market, and as he is the man who knows what it is exactly Baldini has been responsible for (which players were his targets and so on) then atm i must assume he's doing what is required of him.
 
Jurgen the German said:
But you would have to say that SO FAR, only two of the players he has signed look like good players. Just Eriksen and Chadli from S Club 7 look any good.
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Azzaoui has looked excellent so far, and Yahaya is supposed to be brick hot. Most of Baldini's big successes in Italy and Spain were U18s, like these two and that Lazar he also signed for us last summer.
 
Baldini on his way out?

I certainly hope that is the case - seeing what an epic failure his dealings have been bar the Eriksen capture (which could well have been in motion prior to his arrival).

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...given-man-united-are-set-to-complete-big-deal

100 million wasted on dross - another failed ENIC master-stroke and millions wasted on fees/commissions instead of quality players. Not to mention last summer's shambles and the transfer 'intent' we showcased, well fitting for a Top-4 challenging side - lol.

Perhaps we can win the Balance Sheet trophy this year (again)?

I certainly feel Poch and this coming transfer window in particular would be last chance salon for ENIC. Take away the stadium semi-hoax and we've now plateaued for a soild 4-5 years, possibly regressed in some ways. Some might argue this is our true level - fair enough, but then how can you possibly expect Top 4 football from your managers and keep sacking them as a result? Provide the necessary tools for the job - else it's all pointless and quite frankly laughable. Saints are more than likely to finish above us this season.

Back to Baldini - it hasn't worked and will never work if Dan and the DOF pick the players instead of the ACTUAL manager. This rot has been around since Jol's days (well documented) and needs to be eliminate ocne and for all. If you want Poch to succed - sign the players he wants, not the ones which woul make us the best profit 3 season later.

Mitchell to take over?
 
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