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Financial Results 2024-2025

ricky2tricky4city said:
The pressure to buy players...so we did.

Still not good enough.

The pressure to increase wages...so we???

This is football.....the majority of fans don't give a fudge about all this...but like it or not it goes hand in hand with the emotional brick.

We've burned thru the cash pile...now we're borrowing against future revenues that's how far the pendulums swung.
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We really need to offload the likes of Romero and VdV. They should fetch a decent price and can be replaced with Vuskovic and another cheaper player.
 
The club is loss-making on paper, but operationally profitable. Losses are largely due to clever accounting to avoid a hefty tax bill. Primarily driven by non-cash charges, notabily stadium depreciation (£70m) and player amortisation (£130m).
 
robp135 said:
The club is loss-making on paper, but operationally profitable. Losses are largely due to clever accounting to avoid a hefty tax bill. Primarily driven by non-cash charges, notabily stadium depreciation (£70m) and player amortisation (£130m).
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There is nothing clever about our accounting. It is standard accounting. Every company has to depreciate it's plant, property and equipment - as we are doing. We are also reducing this by only £57m in these accounts compared to £69m in the last set of accounts, so this accounts for a lower amount of our loss versus last year.

If you aren't worried by the trend of our accounts then I think you are sticking your head in the sand mate.

If you don't really understand accounts and want to look at just one key metric to get an idea of how things are going then a good thing to look at is net debt:

Item202520242023202224 to 23 Diff24 to 22 Diff
Net Debt:£831.2m£772.5m£677.4m£626.1m£58.7m£205.1m

We are operating with a reasonably consistent ~£50m a year of net debt added, even after the stadium has been fully operational for a long while. And we are doing that despite us having a really low wage bill compared to turnover (lowest in the PL) and a not exactly ridiculous level of transfer spend.

With our wage to revenue ratio and level of transfer spend these past few seasons we really shouldn't be consistently adding ~50m of net debt a year.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think the stadium is costing us a fortune to operate. I would imagine far more than we anticipated when we were building it.
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Possibly, but it doesn't really explain the sudden huge increase. If there were a huge jump in income from events, I'd expect a similar increase in operating costs, percentage-wise. Technology investment is mentioned, but I don't see how we would be investing that much to come near the operational increases.
 
DubSpur said:
Possibly, but it doesn't really explain the sudden huge increase. If there were a huge jump in income from events, I'd expect a similar increase in operating costs, percentage-wise. Technology investment is mentioned, but I don't see how we would be investing that much to come near the operational increases.
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This set of accounts includes the home Europa matches versus the season before with no Europe.

There would also be an increase in operational costs from our European away trips (though I would've thought these would've been reasonably small beer?) Though I believe that Spurs took a lot of their non first team staff to the Europa final, this may have contributed a little bump in costs?
 
DubSpur said:
Any idea why operating costs are so high?

From the looks of it, to my untrained eye, we need a liquidity injection either way.
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Imagine its a cross the board increase. Wages, Energy, food costs (not all passed onto fans as many of the hospitality are on fixed terms). From what I was told when the Palace game was in danger of being postponed in Covid, the cost of literally opening the stadium alone was increasing YOY.

This is only going to get worse, I know from working in hospitality that the costs of supply chain in the last 2 months alone are creeping up to near 20% more, its only going to get worse
 
Finney Is Back said:
This set of accounts includes the home Europa matches versus the season before with no Europe.
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Yes, but that's only 7 extra games. General cost raises, extra events, and those extra games probably would come to around 15%. Its more that there doesn't seem to be the equivalent rise in income that would be expected. Guess it's down to less tv and prize revenue due to where we finished in the league that is making the overall figures looks lower. Going by that we're going to get hit badly again this year.
 
DubSpur said:
Yes, but that's only 7 extra games. General cost raises, extra events, and those extra games probably would come to around 15%. Its more that there doesn't seem to be the equivalent rise in income that would be expected. Guess it's down to less tv and prize revenue due to where we finished in the league that is making the overall figures looks lower. Going by that we're going to get hit badly again this year.
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Yeah, dropping down into bottom 4 of PL for a 2nd consecutive season is going to end up costing us around £80m whilst winning the Europa League only brought in £35m.

All those thousands of empty seats for those CL fixtures this season is going to hit the finances hard again and dread to think what the following season’s turnover is going to be if we remain in bottom half of PL without any European football to offset the loss in PL payments… if we drop down into Championship then ENIC are well and truly fecked!
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think the stadium is costing us a fortune to operate. I would imagine far more than we anticipated when we were building it.
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Not been published at Companies House yet but when they are the accounts of Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Limited might spread a bit more light on costs as they are specifically for the stadium and not the other parts of the business that all come under the parent company of Tottenham Hotspur Limited.
 
DubSpur said:
It won't. Vuskovic is already an upgrade on VdV and a direct replacement. Whatever we got from selling VdV and Romero would more than cover a replacement for Romero, with plenty left over to get an upgrade on Dragusin and invest elsewhere in the team.
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I’d still look to keep one of them.
 
Finney Is Back said:
There is nothing clever about our accounting. It is standard accounting. Every company has to depreciate it's plant, property and equipment - as we are doing. We are also reducing this by only £57m in these accounts compared to £69m in the last set of accounts, so this accounts for a lower amount of our loss versus last year.

If you aren't worried by the trend of our accounts then I think you are sticking your head in the sand mate.

If you don't really understand accounts and want to look at just one key metric to get an idea of how things are going then a good thing to look at is net debt:

Item202520242023202224 to 23 Diff24 to 22 Diff
Net Debt:£831.2m£772.5m£677.4m£626.1m£58.7m£205.1m

We are operating with a reasonably consistent ~£50m a year of net debt added, even after the stadium has been fully operational for a long while. And we are doing that despite us having a really low wage bill compared to turnover (lowest in the PL) and a not exactly ridiculous level of transfer spend.

With our wage to revenue ratio and level of transfer spend these past few seasons we really shouldn't be consistently adding ~50m of net debt a year.
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We will if we do what the fans demand.

If we are running a self sustaining model then you cut your cloth accordingly.

BUT that's not good enough for twitter spurs and many on here.

And when things don't work out it's another round of pay offs and squad rebuilds all compounded by the lack of another potential revenue stream ie selling players. So we burn thru the cash pile we had as where else do we fund transfers (and yes we have been financing transfers) ...that increases the debt as the cash to net off reduces. Reducing any on deposit interest we gain as well to net off against our debt interest.

Not forgetting...We have £90m debt to add already to the next accounts from the Macquarie' loan.

On the other point gawd knows what the stadium cost to run...all I can imagine is that contractor rates have gone up (maintenance etc), general temp staff costs and of course energy.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Imagine its a cross the board increase. Wages, Energy, food costs (not all passed onto fans as many of the hospitality are on fixed terms). From what I was told when the Palace game was in danger of being postponed in Covid, the cost of literally opening the stadium alone was increasing YOY.

This is only going to get worse, I know from working in hospitality that the costs of supply chain in the last 2 months alone are creeping up to near 20% more, its only going to get worse
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On a general point .....there's currently a mismatch in life at the moment between how much things cost business (supply chains, materials etc) and what the end consumer is prepared to pay. (due to wages)

Belt tightening, going without etc is creeping up the middle classes.

Either wages increase to catch up ...or businesses costs start falling.
Literally a disconnect that will see businesses begin to fail.
 
DubSpur said:
Yes, but that's only 7 extra games. General cost raises, extra events, and those extra games probably would come to around 15%. Its more that there doesn't seem to be the equivalent rise in income that would be expected. Guess it's down to less tv and prize revenue due to where we finished in the league that is making the overall figures looks lower. Going by that we're going to get hit badly again this year.
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For starters I think you get circa £3m a place in the PL.
 
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