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Financial Fair Play

Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Tottenham Hotspur announce financial loss of £4.3m


'Spurs are on course to comply with Uefa's financial fair play rules and said they supports its further integration into the Premier League.
The club said they have completed the first step towards building a new stadium adjacent to White Hart Lane, which will increase revenue due to a greater capacity.'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21152143
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

P.D. said:
Spurs statement here

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs/News/shareholder-update-22012013.page?

As we have been delisted do we not have to publish detailed accounts anymore? I thought that as we did it partway through the year they would still need to be released. Shame we won't get the full insight going forward anymore.

They make a big deal out of profit from operations - what does that actually mean?
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Hi, I'm no expert but the key thing is they are our figures excluding player trading.

That's to say if our spending on players was neutral we'd have made a profit. (Before tax and interest payments)

That's a very basic and maybe wrong explanation, but my understanding.

What they're basically saying is we're trading soundly, and can afford to spend money on players.

It's interesting the final profit/loss figures are only about £5m different from the season before, despite no CL.

We partly covered our 'CL deficit' by the better media deals the Prem has got.

Of course without the full analysis of cash flow etc, it's hard to make an in-depth analysis of the situation

It looks like we're basically breaking even, and next year may well turn in a profit, even without CL, partly due to more increased Prem media deals.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

All sounds good then, we only dropped revenue by £12m and the group stage is worth around £20m I think so taking that into account we have actually performed pretty strongly.

Also if we are making £23m profit before player trading then does that mean that's effectively profit we can splash on improved contracts or new players etc? Or am I reading it wrong.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

P.D. said:
All sounds good then, we only dropped revenue by £12m and the group stage is worth around £20m I think so taking that into account we have actually performed pretty strongly.

Also if we are making £23m profit before player trading then does that mean that's effectively profit we can splash on improved contracts or new players etc? Or am I reading it wrong.
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We can definitely afford new players and improved contracts, as I'm sure you know we do it all the time.

We must have bought as many players as all but a few clubs in the last 6 months including Hugo, JV, Clint etc.

Bale is on an improved contract, doubtless others too.

We'll just keep on pretty much as we do now. Not seriously challenging for the title, but challenging for the top 4.

The big difference I hope, is that what in many ways was our biggest signing in the summer, AVB, delivers a trophy or two.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

P.D. said:
All sounds good then, we only dropped revenue by £12m and the group stage is worth around £20m I think so taking that into account we have actually performed pretty strongly.

Also if we are making £23m profit before player trading then does that mean that's effectively profit we can splash on improved contracts or new players etc? Or am I reading it wrong.
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I agree that it sounds good, particularly the rather small drop in revenue despite losing out on CL football. £19m is substantially less than we made from the CL run I believe so we are growing nicely by my (uneducated) estimation. Would like to see someone who knows more about finances than me to analyze what little information has been made public, perhaps the swissramble blog.

I find it interesting that despite the £23m profit from operations we made a loss after football trading of £1.6m. Both our big sales in the summer were after the cut off date, but so were quite a few of our purchases. Our purchases would have been amortized (or whatever it's called) over the length of the contract anyway, and we haven't made a lot of big money moves in recent years although I would guess players like Parker, Sandro and VdV were still being "paid for".

We have seen agent fees in recent years close to £10m, I wonder if that is included in the football trading portion of the report, I would assume so. If that is true and that is an amount we must expect to pay most years we're active in the market that's almost half of our operating profit.

Again I think Levy deserves a lot of credit.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

3%2BTottenham%2BProfit.jpg


Latest results:

Total Club revenue for the year was £144m, 12% lower than the prior year (2011: £163m), which was primarily due to the absence of Champions League football.

The Club made an operating loss after football trading of £1.6m (2011: Profit £1.4m) and a loss for the year after interest and tax of £4.3m (2011: Profit £0.7m).

Profit from operations of £23m (2011: £38m) for the year ended 30 June 2012. Looking across the past five years this measure of cash generated from operations has averaged over £29m per annum.

Revenues continued to increase on the commercial front with media revenues increasing 10% and Sponsorship and Corporate Hospitality also increasing 10%. Merchandising was 4% lower largely due to the lack of Champions League participation, but the focus on cost control ensured that operating costs were also lower, down 1% on the prior year.

4%2BTottenham%2BAdjusted%2BProfit.jpg

17%2BTottenham%2BWages%2Bto%2BTurnover.jpg

19%2BTottenham%2BPlayer%2BTrading.jpg

Tottenham%2BDebt.jpg

22%2BTottenham%2BCash%2BFlow.jpg
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

i wonder what the payout for that world class teaching, training and treatment facility - i'm sure it took a lot of money to build but will be hard to justify. the idea of course is to develop talent which is cheaper than buying, but with the Bosman rule you can never be sure who profits!
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

metalgear said:
i wonder what the payout for that world class teaching, training and treatment facility - i'm sure it took a lot of money to build but will be hard to justify. the idea of course is to develop talent which is cheaper than buying, but with the Bosman rule you can never be sure who profits!
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I struggle to see how we could ever become a top class side without a top class training facility.

Not only supposed to help us develop young talented players, but also help us develop our first team players.

If there is a correlation between the quality of the training facility and the player improvement for the players then I think it's a sound investment. That might be too much of an assumption, but it seems reasonable to me.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

JPG_357 said:
Hi, I'm no expert but the key thing is they are our figures excluding player trading.

That's to say if our spending on players was neutral we'd have made a profit. (Before tax and interest payments)

That's a very basic and maybe wrong explanation, but my understanding.

What they're basically saying is we're trading soundly, and can afford to spend money on players.

It's interesting the final profit/loss figures are only about £5m different from the season before, despite no CL.

We partly covered our 'CL deficit' by the better media deals the Prem has got.

Of course without the full analysis of cash flow etc, it's hard to make an in-depth analysis of the situation

It looks like we're basically breaking even, and next year may well turn in a profit, even without CL, partly due to more increased Prem media deals.
Click to expand...

That is my understanding too. Players are treated as assets so transfers don't get counted as operating revenue/expenses.

The other thing I assume would be excluded is stadium related expenses, although these might be in one of the network of property companies associated with the club.

P.S. Our spending on players might be close to neutral, but that doesn't mean there isn't an accounting profit because of amortisation. Berbatov was a £25m profit despite the difference in transfers being £20m because half the transfer fee had been written off. Similarly, a lot of Modric's transfer would have been written off, at a guess around £11m of it, so the profit was upwards of £25m.
 
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Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

braineclipse said:
I struggle to see how we could ever become a top class side without a top class training facility.

Not only supposed to help us develop young talented players, but also help us develop our first team players.

If there is a correlation between the quality of the training facility and the player improvement for the players then I think it's a sound investment. That might be too much of an assumption, but it seems reasonable to me.
Click to expand...

There are also intangibles. Good players will have many clubs interested. While wages and champions league football will be bigger factors, an impressive training facility could be enough to swing a close decision.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Net debt of £57m is fairly high and has probably increased a bit to say £65m with the payments for training facility.

We often hear of teams like Everton being in debt with debts of £70-£80m etc but ours never seems to be picked up?
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

P.D. said:
Net debt of £57m is fairly high and has probably increased a bit to say £65m with the payments for training facility.

We often hear of teams like Everton being in debt with debts of £70-£80m etc but ours never seems to be picked up?
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It's because we can afford to pay our debt without any radical action. Whilst Everton have to resort to selling off their big players every so often (though if they reach the CL they may not have to).


Selling your big players to pay debt raises far more media profile.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

ArcspacE said:
Someone's pay-off? :-"
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the trend these days is not to pay off sacked managers with one lump sum, but to continue to pay their salaries under the terms of their contracts until they find a new job
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

P.D. said:
Net debt of £57m is fairly high and has probably increased a bit to say £65m with the payments for training facility.

We often hear of teams like Everton being in debt with debts of £70-£80m etc but ours never seems to be picked up?
Click to expand...

Everton's revenue is substantially smaller than ours.

Everton's wages are a higher percentage of their turnover compared to us.

Our debts are related to what seems like a very realistic stadium project, along with that comes the realistic plan to pay this back. Everton seemingly has no realistic new stadium project.

We make operating profits somewhat regularly, Everton generally end up with losses.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

In the case of Everton:

EVERTON FC insist they have not increased their debt by taking out a new loan based on their Premier League television income for next season.

Last month the Blues signed a loan agreement with British Virgin Islands based Vibrac Corporation for one year to the value of £14m, after repaying a similar deal for the same amount to previous lenders, banking firm Investec.

One national newspaper report today detailed the club’s new loan, but club officials say it is a rolling agreement which has been part of their finances for more than four years and was clear to see in their last set of accounts.

And they say the interest rates they have agreed with Vibrac will actually save them money compared to the terms offered for renewal by Investec and other banks.

Borrowing against TV income for the following year is not uncommon among top flight football clubs, and the club’s latest loan has been approved by the Premier League.

Everton are aware of the risk to both lender and mortgager of such loans should they be relegated, but insist that even in the unlikely situation that they were consigned to the Championship they could cover it from the bumper parachute payments from the Premier League.

And club officials say Vibrac’s agreement to loan them the £14m is a sign of their confidence that Everton will remain in England's top division.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2011/09/20/everton-fc-insist-new-loan-based-on-next-season-s-premier-league-tv-income-will-not-increase-debt-100252-29456193/

That's what happens when you don't have the necessary cash flow.
 
Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

P.D. said:
Net debt of £57m is fairly high and has probably increased a bit to say £65m with the payments for training facility.

We often hear of teams like Everton being in debt with debts of £70-£80m etc but ours never seems to be picked up?
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We may have a net debt of £65m, but our assets are way in excess of that.

In our last annual report that gave full figures, our assets stood at about £290m. I'm confident they're similar or more by now.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/media/docs/annual_report_2011.pdf

I would guess our assets are in excess of Everton too, so the debt weighs heavier on them, especially as our revenue is higher than theirs too.

Given our assets and income, I think our debt is easily manageable, so there would be no need to make a fuss over it. Of course some papers might do so anyway :)

Here's some figures from 2010

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ebt-league-how-much-do-clubs-owe-1912244.html

Utd had a net debt of over £700m, now that's debt for ya :)

They're still the best team in England though.

Interestingly a year or two later their debt has shrunk dramatically

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...l-health-of-the-Premier-League-laid-bare.html

But it's still way in excess of ours

I'm assuming all these figures are correct. I haven't got a scooby.
 
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Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

We're 13th in the new Deloitte 'rich list'.

http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/fourfo...s-deloitte-s-football-money-league-2013.aspx?

Interesting that Saudi Sportswashing Machine have broken in at 20th. I guess the power of the Prem deals and their big gates have swung it for them.

Presumably we will slip down the Deloitte table next year on the back of our revenue fall just reported.

I'd guess we'll still be 6th amongst the English clubs, can't see Toon overtaking us.

With regards to 'financial fair play' Spain is an embarrassment. Their big two head the list and that's it for the top 20.
 
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Re: O/T Financial Fair Play

Position Club Revenue (€m)

(last season) 2011-12 (2010-11)

1 (1) Real Madrid 512.6 (479.5)

2 (2) Barcelona 483 (450.7)

3 (3) Manchester Utd 395.9 (367)

4 (4) Bayern Munich 368.4 (321.4)

5 (5) Chelsea 322.6 (253.1)

6 (6) Arsenal 290.3 (251.1)

7 (12) Emirates Marketing Project 285.6 (169.6)

8 (7) Milan 256.9 (234.8)

9 (9) Liverpool 233.2 (203.3)

10 (13) Juventus 195.4 (153.9)

11 (16) Borussia Dortmund 189.1 (138.5)

12 (8) Internazionale 185.9 (211.4)

13 (11) Tottenham 178.2 (181)

14 (10) Schalke 174.5 (202.4)

15 (20) Napoli 148.4 (114.9)

16 (14) Marseille 135.7 (150.4)

17 (17) Lyon 131.9 (132.8)

18 (18) Hamburg 121.1 (128.8)

19 (15) Roma 115.9 (143.5)

20 (-) Saudi Sportswashing Machine 115.3 (98)
 
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