ENIC

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

No we didn't

I think thats a massive simplifying of what were two massively complex deals. Eze deal where we, ok, should have moved on, but were working around agents leveraging clubs AND, TBH I can't believe we are having to go over it again, the MGW deal where I suspect had he not had family issues which were pushed and played on by their owner he likely would have joined. There is absolutely no way we were embarrassed by the MGW deal, I don't feel that at all, its football it happens.

But the point being that money has now been made more readily available. Do you honestly think levy was not spending money on wages because he wanted to be frugal or spiteful towards the club he had helped to build for success OR do you think its more likely there were instructions on what could be spent and the paymasters, the accountants and excel sheets that generally govern a club who were set up at the time to spend what they earn?

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I mean I know we like to all think we make better owners, managers players etc, but hard to not take it from people in the game (ref above screen shots)

Ultimately I think what we are doing now is great, I temper that with caution because we are clearly paying over the odds on fees and the fact we are borrowing high interest loans on future earnings means they simply have to work. I think to use this as a stick to beat Levy with (there are plenty of other things) is ridiculous considering, when its all said and done, we have the same ownership we had for 25 years.

I am never as thirsty as other fans on the spent spend spend, for me its always been about the right players and we did get some very very good players in over 20 years, some we couldn't but generally they were players who chose bigger clubs (some that didn't I get it) but ultimately this window like any should be judged on what this translates on the pitch, not the bank balance because thats the only place it matters now, so I think people need to temper their "nouveau Lewis" talk just because they have quench their first on spending money, lets see how it goes on the pitch.

Anyway its been done to death and I am boring myself let alone all the other poor posters. People can believe what they want, in my experience of supporting this club, everyone loves a villain regardless if they deserve it or not

Gonna be honest, I don’t think MGW or Eze were that complicated. I think it’s what we tell ourselves to rationalise the fact that we couldn’t get them done. Savinho has certainly been complicated. Tonali could have been complicated this summer. Fernandes might have been. We had completion. But we got them done. If MGW’s baby mamma didn’t want to move to London, the deal never would have gotten as far as it did. And in any case, it’s about what it shows. We were clearly in for these players, and we couldn’t get it done. That was Levy being given a chance to show what he could do, with more leeway to go after bigger targets. He couldn’t do it. This summer, we heard noises around how United and City were surprised we’d offer the wages that we did. That’s what we needed to do. Decisively get into the mix early in the window.

I think Levy was running the Joe strategy for most of his time here. But I think last summer was different. He was given an opportunity to participate in the future, the next phase of the club, and I think he blew it.

 

[Baleforce]

Gonna be honest, I don’t think MGW or Eze were that complicated. I think it’s what we tell ourselves to rationalise the fact that we couldn’t get them done. Savinho has certainly been complicated. Tonali could have been complicated this summer. Fernandes might have been. We had completion. But we got them done. If MGW’s baby mamma didn’t want to move to London, the deal never would have gotten as far as it did. And in any case, it’s about what it shows. We were clearly in for these players, and we couldn’t get it done. That was Levy being given a chance to show what he could do, with more leeway to go after bigger targets. He couldn’t do it. This summer, we heard noises around how United and City were surprised we’d offer the wages that we did. That’s what we needed to do. Decisively get into the mix early in the window.

I think Levy was running the Joe strategy for most of his time here. But I think last summer was different. He was given an opportunity to participate in the future, the next phase of the club, and I think he blew it.

If those two clubs are surprised at what we are offering for wages we are paying too much.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

If MGW’s baby mamma didn’t want to move to London, the deal never would have gotten as far as it did

It was far far far more complicated than that, the fact you dont know that or are being purposely ignorant to the reasons and subsequent statements from MGW makes having a conversation pointless TBH

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

It was far far far more complicated than that, the fact you dont know that or are being purposely ignorant to the reasons and subsequent statements from MGW makes having a conversation pointless TBH

What exactly are you referring to? It was a difficult pregnancy, and he called it a stressful time.

I can accept that he wanted to remove himself from a high pressure situation and not force through a transfer. I am more concerned with respect to the subject of this discussion as to whether Levy was good enough to get deals like this done.

In this case, we waded in. We tinkled off the opposite club’s owner with cheap tactics to the point that he took a huge stand against us and created an even higher pressure situation. Just like with Eze, the actual details were different but in both situations we are buggering around winding the other clubs up, rather than doing what it takes to get the deals done. It was Levy all over.

I think that, if Levy wasn’t driving things last summer, we probably would have gone about the MGW deal a much different way. Maybe the deal still would not have gotten done due to his personal circumstances, but I think the very public level of incompetence that was shown in those two deals in particular was a big part of the reason Levy was shown the door.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

If those two clubs are surprised at what we are offering for wages we are paying too much.

I think they were surprised that *WE* were offering proper money, not surprised at the amounts exactly.

And if we’re going all in on De Zerbi ball and judge those two to be crucial to getting it right, then if we want to pay more to get them over the line, then good. As long as what we are doing is sustainable, then let’s execute against a strategy.

 

[Bishop]

I like how in the space of a few months "can't judge the new owners for at least 5 years" has been turned on it's head because we appear to have done something positive

Why anyone would judge them positively or negatively at this stage is beyond me.

I think I have said this before (as have several others) but I've generally been clear that the amount we spent on transfers wasn't always the issue, the issue was the way that we spent on transfers. The constant haggling to the last penny delaying signings to the last knockings of the window, keeping players who weren't wanted around because our (too high) valuation wasn't met, not bidding what other clubs were asking for players our manager wanted in the early stages of the transfer window before strangely often bidding quite a bit more than that amount right at the end of the window when desperate. Constantly sacking managers and flip flopping between different footballing philosophies from one manager to the next, having not got the manager the players they wanted to implement their completely different style.

These are exactly the valid complaints around Levy but whenever these conversations come up the pro Levy crowd rarely ever actually address these complaints and strawman a argument that hasn't even been made.

Net spend wasn't the issue under Levy. Wages paid and ego led transfer negotiation along with adversion to risk that had us spreading the budget we had thinly rather than concentrating it on riskier singular targets.

 

[Baleforce]

I think they were surprised that *WE* were offering proper money, not surprised at the amounts exactly.

And if we’re going all in on De Zerbi ball and judge those two to be crucial to getting it right, then if we want to pay more to get them over the line, then good. As long as what we are doing is sustainable, then let’s execute against a strategy.

I agree, I just don't see how it can be sustainable, even more so with the "mortgaging" thats going on.

 

[Bishop]

I agree, I just don't see how it can be sustainable, even more so with the "mortgaging" thats going on.

I don't think it needs to be sustainable. We've rebuilt the squad this summer, we shouldn't need to spend like this again. There will of course be the need for future work in the windows but it shouldn't need to be a full rebuild and shouldn't require anywhere near that kind of spends we've had to do this season.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Close to £300M now which is 6x what the Dad put in.

Their own personal wealth, or loans from ENIC, or loans secured against the club?

 

[parklane1]

No we didn't

I think thats a massive simplifying of what were two massively complex deals. Eze deal where we, ok, should have moved on, but were working around agents leveraging clubs AND, TBH I can't believe we are having to go over it again, the MGW deal where I suspect had he not had family issues which were pushed and played on by their owner he likely would have joined. There is absolutely no way we were embarrassed by the MGW deal, I don't feel that at all, its football it happens.

No mate you have got it wrong it was all down to Levys fault.

 

[Bullet]

I was just pondering whether ENIC makes up a large part of Tavistock Group assets, as they do have a lot of other irons in the fire and businesses to oversee

AI says this

Asset	Type	Estimated Value
ENIC Group (Tottenham Hotspur)	Sports / Private	$3.00 Billion
Lake Nona Medical City	Real Estate / Private	$1.35 Billion (midpoint)
Private Art Collection	Liquid Luxury / Private	$1.00 Billion+
Mitchells & Butlers	Hospitality / Public	$635.6 Million
Albany Bahamas Resort	Real Estate / Private	$500.0 Million (midpoint)
Other Real Estate (Isleworth/Pier 66)	Real Estate / Private	$500.0 Million+
Australian Agricultural Co.	Agriculture / Public	$277.0 Million
Superyacht Aviva & Private Jets	Luxury Assets / Private	$340.0 Million

Remaining billions are held in cash reserves from historic currency trading wins, biotechnology venture capitals, and alternative private equity holdings.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

As well as owning 25% of Tottenham, I think Levy ran every single aspect of it. I believe that Levy was perfectly happy to run THFC with a sole aim of increasing his and Joe Lewis's net worth and I believe that Joe was perfectly happy to let Levy run it that way. They were a perfect match.

The Super League, attempted move to Stratford and chasing of a future NFL franchise are things that suggest to me that this was the aim from both of them before we even consider the fact that we only ever pushed the boat for players out from positions of weakness and never strength (protect the investment only!)

I think Joe Lewis counts his success via the size of his net worth, I think Daniel Levy and he are peas in a pod in that way. Lewis was perfectly happy to have a CEO who shared that vision for both of them and allowed him to run Spurs as he saw fit because Levy was making the pair of them richer.
Perhaps the next generation of the Lewis family value what constitutes personal success in a different way to their Dad (and Levy). Maybe they realise they have enough money for their own, their kids, their grandkids and their grandkids kids lifetimes, and hence their views differed to Levy's, eventually leading to them ousting Levy and appointing a new CEO in Vinai Venkatesham who shares the vision of glory on the football pitch and not just constant increasing of personal wealth. Why do you think they would've ousted (a kicking and screaming) Levy otherwise?

There's nothing wrong with any of that.

Most clubs would give their right arm to have someone like DL up until the stadium opening.

The way he (and Lewis) operated benefitted us as well as them.

The kids have walked into a serious pile of inheritance....that's a completely different mindset to business owners that done some serious hard yards for decades.

Btw Vinai doesn't share 'a vision of glory' lol ...it's just a well paid job. I think his communication style is smarmy tbh.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

There's nothing wrong with any of that.

Most clubs would give their right arm to have someone like DL up until the stadium opening.

The way he (and Lewis) operated benefitted us as well as them.

The kids have walked into a serious pile of inheritance....that's a completely different mindset to business owners that done some serious hard yards for decades.

Btw Vinai doesn't share 'a vision of glory' lol ...it's just a well paid job. I think his communication style is smarmy tbh.

And none of this new found ambition would be possible without DL and the club he set up and the previous commercial success