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ENIC

If you want to know what Levy/ENIC did for us, watch this video.
When the Prem started we were fighting Wimbledon Forest Bolton Boro Blackburn Leeds Soton SheffWeds QPR etc and often losing out, we had to fight, fight, fight past them as Blackburn cheated and Leeds cheated and Cheatski cheated and we got beaten by Bolton signing players they couldn't afford and always we got the sniping as we fought and fought our way past Villa and Everton and emerged as one of the big boys and then Cheatski doubled down on their cheating and City cheated like nobody has ever cheated and Leicester spent what they didn't have and still we rise.

Cheating is temporary, class is permanent

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If you want to know what Levy/ENIC did for us, watch this video.
When the Prem started we were fighting Wimbledon Forest Bolton Boro Blackburn Leeds Soton SheffWeds QPR etc and often losing out, we had to fight, fight, fight past them as Blackburn cheated and Leeds cheated and Cheatski cheated and we got beaten by Bolton signing players they couldn't afford and always we got the sniping as we fought and fought our way past Villa and Everton and emerged as one of the big boys and then Cheatski doubled down on their cheating and City cheated like nobody has ever cheated and Leicester spent what they didn't have and still we rise.

Cheating is temporary, class is permanent

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You are not wrong here but it’s also fair to say that just a bit more ambition and the club could have really pushed on.

Carrick wanted to stay according to his autobiography. Selling him set that side back behind Arsenal. That same summer Saudi Sportswashing Machine beat us to Damien Duff offering higher wages. Jols team ultimately could not push on.

Under Redknapp we had a deal in place to sign Gary Cahill that fell through over add ons. That season King, Gallas, Dawson & Bassong all had long injuries and Kaboul was the only consistent centre back. We signed Ryan Nelson that January while Chelsea signed Cahill. He went on to start for them and win the Champions Legaue which cost us our place. That all saw Hazard go to Chelsea and we missed out on Moutinhio for AVB.

Then under Pochettino you have a generational #9 an a solid team around him and the clun never goes all in with Levy/ENIC.

Under Ange we never signed the 2 key players for his tactics. The window just gone with Frank we clearly needed another LB & LW and don’t get them in and the club is flirting with relegation.

We’re not talking about spending like Chelsea & City. Or even like the other “top 6”. But your talk about over a 25 year period signing 1 extra player every 2 seasons and the trajectory of the club could have been so different without risking becoming a Leeds.
 
You are not wrong here but it’s also fair to say that just a bit more ambition and the club could have really pushed on.

Carrick wanted to stay according to his autobiography. Selling him set that side back behind Arsenal. That same summer Saudi Sportswashing Machine beat us to Damien Duff offering higher wages. Jols team ultimately could not push on.

Under Redknapp we had a deal in place to sign Gary Cahill that fell through over add ons. That season King, Gallas, Dawson & Bassong all had long injuries and Kaboul was the only consistent centre back. We signed Ryan Nelson that January while Chelsea signed Cahill. He went on to start for them and win the Champions Legaue which cost us our place. That all saw Hazard go to Chelsea and we missed out on Moutinhio for AVB.

Then under Pochettino you have a generational #9 an a solid team around him and the clun never goes all in with Levy/ENIC.

Under Ange we never signed the 2 key players for his tactics. The window just gone with Frank we clearly needed another LB & LW and don’t get them in and the club is flirting with relegation.

We’re not talking about spending like Chelsea & City. Or even like the other “top 6”. But your talk about over a 25 year period signing 1 extra player every 2 seasons and the trajectory of the club could have been so different without risking becoming a Leeds.
Since 1992 Spurs have made 156,423,873 decisions. They got 83.2% of them correct. That is a higher percentage than most.

Yes, we should have bought Cahill and Duff and Bergkamp and all the others.
 
Since 1992 Spurs have made 156,423,873 decisions. They got 83.2% of them correct. That is a higher percentage than most.

Yes, we should have bought Cahill and Duff and Bergkamp and all the others.

You would have to give me an example of a time where, with ENIC/Levy in charge, they had pushed their chips in.

I was born in 1986 turned 5 days after the 1991 FA Cup Final. While I can’t remember if I watched the game live, I watched the VHS recording of the game hundreds of times in my youth and that’s how. That along with a BBC review of the 1990 World Cup formulated my views on football and love for Spurs.

To me Tottenham Hotspur were the club that had won the FA Cup more than any other. We had Englands best 2 players in Gazza & Lineker. We were managed by Barcelonas former coach Venables. We were a special club. Being the 6th best team is not the standard we strive for. This is the standard and it always will be.

IMG_7935.jpeg
 
You would have to give me an example of a time where, with ENIC/Levy in charge, they had pushed their chips in.

I was born in 1986 turned 5 days after the 1991 FA Cup Final. While I can’t remember if I watched the game live, I watched the VHS recording of the game hundreds of times in my youth and that’s how. That along with a BBC review of the 1990 World Cup formulated my views on football and love for Spurs.

To me Tottenham Hotspur were the club that had won the FA Cup more than any other. We had Englands best 2 players in Gazza & Lineker. We were managed by Barcelonas former coach Venables. We were a special club. Being the 6th best team is not the standard we strive for. This is the standard and it always will be.

View attachment 21659
So finishing 10th & winning the FA cup is the standard. I would respectfully disagree unless you are talking about a different year.
 
So finishing 10th & winning the FA cup is the standard. I would respectfully disagree unless you are talking about a different year.

Football was different back then winning the Cup was on a par with winning the league. We had also challenged for the league title the prior season and in 1987. Teams form from season to season would be more eratic because squads were smaller so 2 big injuries would derail a season.

Point is that there were only a handful of world class players in the English league at that time and two of them played for Spurs. Along with an elite manager. That fell apart due to financial issues that were related to business failings off the pitch.

Can argue we have never really recovered from those because when the boom happened in the 90’s Spurs were lower mid table due to these debts. So kids in London and across the country supported Woolwich, Man Utd and Liverpool. Then in the 2000’s the artificial inflation of Chelsea & City got foreign investment.

Credit to Levy and ENIC they have seperated us from the teams below us in terms of revenue and profile but to become equal to those clubs which is our rightful place in the food chain of English football will only happen through regular success on the pitch and tha will only come from serious investment into the team.
 
You would have to give me an example of a time where, with ENIC/Levy in charge, they had pushed their chips in.

I was born in 1986 turned 5 days after the 1991 FA Cup Final. While I can’t remember if I watched the game live, I watched the VHS recording of the game hundreds of times in my youth and that’s how. That along with a BBC review of the 1990 World Cup formulated my views on football and love for Spurs.

To me Tottenham Hotspur were the club that had won the FA Cup more than any other. We had Englands best 2 players in Gazza & Lineker. We were managed by Barcelonas former coach Venables. We were a special club. Being the 6th best team is not the standard we strive for. This is the standard and it always will be.

View attachment 21659
Almost going out of business?
 
To me Tottenham Hotspur were the club that had won the FA Cup more than any other. We had Englands best 2 players in Gazza & Lineker. We were managed by Barcelonas former coach Venables. We were a special club. Being the 6th best team is not the standard we strive for. This is the standard and it always will be.

IMG_7935.jpeg
So you also remember that was Gazzas last game for us, Venables had stepped down as manager a month later.....as he thought him and Sugar would make a dream team in the boardroom? :)
 
The part in bold is key for me. It’s why I want these owners to go and why I don’t want Levy to come back. We won’t bridge the gap given how we operate IMO. We won’t do that without a different approach which means spending more on wages, not just transfer fees.

I think long term the stadium should see us pull even further clear of the likes of Villa, Everton and Saudi Sportswashing Machine in terms of revenue. But it won’t see us catch the big boys.

I saw a report (not sure how accurate it was) that we spend the 6th most in the prem on wages only a couple of million or so behind Chelsea.
 
You would have to give me an example of a time where, with ENIC/Levy in charge, they had pushed their chips in.

To me Tottenham Hotspur were the club that had won the FA Cup more than any other. We had Englands best 2 players in Gazza & Lineker. We were managed by Barcelonas former coach Venables. We were a special club. Being the 6th best team is not the standard we strive for. This is the standard and it always will be.

So to answer your questions/points

1. They never have, this is both the curse and amazing work of Levy. The owners (not Levy) gave him a football club that was in a dire situation, that had a decade of misery behind it, was behind clubs we would no longer consider rivals and gave him a mandate of run the club has a self-sustained financial entity, Levy took a look around and realized two things, firstly we were at a massive disadvantage to the clubs that managed to be top 4 in the early years of PL/CL that gave them a massive financial springboard to create a gap, second Leeds had just imploded to trying to play with said big boys and by taking risk betting on future results.

His response, build the financial side of the club to allow us to compete (clubs like Villa, Everton, West Ham, Sunderland, Leicester will never consistently compete because they make ~250M/yr less than top 6, over 5 years that is a gap in the billion+ range, no owner input is going to cover that), with the logic that on field success will follow with the additional revenue being available (that owners would not provide)

The result, the most successful upgrade of a club infrastructurally and financially probably ever seen by legitimate means, and the most successful consistent league run in the clubs history, and yes, we can say 2 trophies was not good enough, but chances were there for more and see second point. Because of the financial restrictions, Levy tended to use his risk calls to counter when we were in trouble vs. when we push the boat out.

2. Your version of Spurs (80's) was one of the clubs that had a financial advantage (we had a better chunk of tv deal than the Sky model that came later), your version of Spurs didn't have RA's Chelsea, or UAE's City or Saudi's Saudi Sportswashing Machine to compete with either. If we had competent football authorities those clubs would not have happened and Spurs would absolutely have won more in the Levy era.

None of this says we shouldn't want more, but part of my huge frustration of the time between your Spurs and now is

- The media has manipulated fans (Sportswashing works) into this idea that City/Chelsea are some great achievement and not a stain on both the football and moral landscape, and the people involved with them are just geniuses
- This has led to Spurs being criticised (small club, look how they delighted in the Ange interview) for not being able to match an oil state in spend/wages
- Our own fans (see this board every day), equating ambition with how much money beyond your revenue stream you can throw at players

I think Levy had two primary flaws, one understandable, i.e. the decision to not push the boat out for more success due to risk concerns, the other I believe his initial goal was to get us top 4 and when he got us there, didn't quite grasp how to push on (partially a funding issue which is why I think in last couple of years he was looking for investors)
 
Levy not here any more so who gets the blame has to be Vinai..

Never been a huge fan of the Trust ( although I appreciate they have a difficult job to do and they actually do a lot of good stuff on the operational side of things). But I agree with them here. Whilst it is perfectly normal for meeting minutes to be approved by all involved before publication, that is for the purpose of protecting commercially sensitive information or personal information etc. If the club are just refusing to approve questions that the Trust have asked (however naive or stupid or valid they might be) then that is wrong.

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So to answer your questions/points

1. They never have, this is both the curse and amazing work of Levy. The owners (not Levy) gave him a football club that was in a dire situation, that had a decade of misery behind it, was behind clubs we would no longer consider rivals and gave him a mandate of run the club has a self-sustained financial entity, Levy took a look around and realized two things, firstly we were at a massive disadvantage to the clubs that managed to be top 4 in the early years of PL/CL that gave them a massive financial springboard to create a gap, second Leeds had just imploded to trying to play with said big boys and by taking risk betting on future results.

His response, build the financial side of the club to allow us to compete (clubs like Villa, Everton, West Ham, Sunderland, Leicester will never consistently compete because they make ~250M/yr less than top 6, over 5 years that is a gap in the billion+ range, no owner input is going to cover that), with the logic that on field success will follow with the additional revenue being available (that owners would not provide)

The result, the most successful upgrade of a club infrastructurally and financially probably ever seen by legitimate means, and the most successful consistent league run in the clubs history, and yes, we can say 2 trophies was not good enough, but chances were there for more and see second point. Because of the financial restrictions, Levy tended to use his risk calls to counter when we were in trouble vs. when we push the boat out.

2. Your version of Spurs (80's) was one of the clubs that had a financial advantage (we had a better chunk of tv deal than the Sky model that came later), your version of Spurs didn't have RA's Chelsea, or UAE's City or Saudi's Saudi Sportswashing Machine to compete with either. If we had competent football authorities those clubs would not have happened and Spurs would absolutely have won more in the Levy era.

None of this says we shouldn't want more, but part of my huge frustration of the time between your Spurs and now is

- The media has manipulated fans (Sportswashing works) into this idea that City/Chelsea are some great achievement and not a stain on both the football and moral landscape, and the people involved with them are just geniuses
- This has led to Spurs being criticised (small club, look how they delighted in the Ange interview) for not being able to match an oil state in spend/wages
- Our own fans (see this board every day), equating ambition with how much money beyond your revenue stream you can throw at players

I think Levy had two primary flaws, one understandable, i.e. the decision to not push the boat out for more success due to risk concerns, the other I believe his initial goal was to get us top 4 and when he got us there, didn't quite grasp how to push on (partially a funding issue which is why I think in last couple of years he was looking for investors)

Think you are exactly right on all counts there.

On your points around his flaws, this is why I just don’t know whether I’d have him back leading a consortium with more money willing to invest. He’s just untested at being the person who can drive a more aggressive strategy. I think we have seen the danger of losing Levy in leaving Vinai, who doesn’t know this club as well, to sit with the decision to keep Frank way longer than he should have, but if we get back on a solid platform, does Daniel have it in his DNA to drive a more aggressive strategy?

Leaders in business tend to suit a particular context. Maybe Levy found his? Some adapt. A Levy unburdened from the shackles of the ENIC constraints would be really interesting to see. Right now though it would be a risk - he grew up under ENIC as a leader after all.
 
So to answer your questions/points

1. They never have, this is both the curse and amazing work of Levy. The owners (not Levy) gave him a football club that was in a dire situation, that had a decade of misery behind it, was behind clubs we would no longer consider rivals and gave him a mandate of run the club has a self-sustained financial entity, Levy took a look around and realized two things, firstly we were at a massive disadvantage to the clubs that managed to be top 4 in the early years of PL/CL that gave them a massive financial springboard to create a gap, second Leeds had just imploded to trying to play with said big boys and by taking risk betting on future results.

His response, build the financial side of the club to allow us to compete (clubs like Villa, Everton, West Ham, Sunderland, Leicester will never consistently compete because they make ~250M/yr less than top 6, over 5 years that is a gap in the billion+ range, no owner input is going to cover that), with the logic that on field success will follow with the additional revenue being available (that owners would not provide)

The result, the most successful upgrade of a club infrastructurally and financially probably ever seen by legitimate means, and the most successful consistent league run in the clubs history, and yes, we can say 2 trophies was not good enough, but chances were there for more and see second point. Because of the financial restrictions, Levy tended to use his risk calls to counter when we were in trouble vs. when we push the boat out.

2. Your version of Spurs (80's) was one of the clubs that had a financial advantage (we had a better chunk of tv deal than the Sky model that came later), your version of Spurs didn't have RA's Chelsea, or UAE's City or Saudi's Saudi Sportswashing Machine to compete with either. If we had competent football authorities those clubs would not have happened and Spurs would absolutely have won more in the Levy era.

None of this says we shouldn't want more, but part of my huge frustration of the time between your Spurs and now is

- The media has manipulated fans (Sportswashing works) into this idea that City/Chelsea are some great achievement and not a stain on both the football and moral landscape, and the people involved with them are just geniuses
- This has led to Spurs being criticised (small club, look how they delighted in the Ange interview) for not being able to match an oil state in spend/wages
- Our own fans (see this board every day), equating ambition with how much money beyond your revenue stream you can throw at players

I think Levy had two primary flaws, one understandable, i.e. the decision to not push the boat out for more success due to risk concerns, the other I believe his initial goal was to get us top 4 and when he got us there, didn't quite grasp how to push on (partially a funding issue which is why I think in last couple of years he was looking for investors)

This would all make perfect sense if we were spending the percentage of our revenue on the playing squad that’s in line with other clubs.
 
You would have to give me an example of a time where, with ENIC/Levy in charge, they had pushed their chips in.

I was born in 1986 turned 5 days after the 1991 FA Cup Final. While I can’t remember if I watched the game live, I watched the VHS recording of the game hundreds of times in my youth and that’s how. That along with a BBC review of the 1990 World Cup formulated my views on football and love for Spurs.

To me Tottenham Hotspur were the club that had won the FA Cup more than any other. We had Englands best 2 players in Gazza & Lineker. We were managed by Barcelonas former coach Venables. We were a special club. Being the 6th best team is not the standard we strive for. This is the standard and it always will be.

View attachment 21659

The issues around that time though partly created by Terry (who I loved) attributed to his downfall.

When Sugar took over and they tried to professionalise Tottenham as a business they found bundles of cash stashed all over the offices of the club.

There were also historic issues from Scholar and the 80s where the club were operating a highly questionable loans racket for players who took out interest loans from a bank account overseas in order to give them the money they wanted to sign new contracts (Hoddle & Ardiles etc). We were having to pay for that well into the 90s when the paper trail was uncovered, it was in part why we employed Ossie as manager as it put some of the dodgy financials to bed.

The club was fcuked

This is a scary watch

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The issues around that time though partly created by Terry (who I loved) attributed to his downfall.

When Sugar took over and they tried to professionalise Tottenham as a business they found bundles of cash stashed all over the offices of the club.

There were also historic issues from Scholar and the 80s where the club were operating a highly questionable loans racket for players who took out interest loans from a bank account overseas in order to give them the money they wanted to sign new contracts (Hoddle & Ardiles etc). We were having to pay for that well into the 90s when the paper trail was uncovered, it was in part why we employed Ossie as manager as it put some of the dodgy financials to bed.

The club was fcuked

Completley right and credit to ENIC and for the most part Daniel Levy the club is now in a position where its financially on a par with all but a handfull of super clubs when you remove revenue from competitions.

There are no longer excuses for this club to not be competing for the major honours.
 
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