ENIC

[billyiddo]

i dont think its naive at all. Banks and financial institutions were much more willing to lend money, sponsors were plentiful willing to join the football bandwagon, im sure it would have been easier to secure naming rights than it is now. Arsanal had regular CL football, but it was never a guarantee. It was not guaranteed income that they could use as evidence when applying for funding for their new ground...........im sure had it been the number one priority from the beginning back in 2001 then ENIC would somehow found a way to have us in a new ground by at least 2 or 3 years ago. It would have happened. They were simply short sighted from the start

wishful thinking at best. we had no waiting list - no demand for for 20k extra seats, no steady form of on field success - no one is going to throw money at a stadium club without some kind of projected growth, something which Arsenal could show alongside demand. If it was that easy to get stadium financing to that level why aren't the likes of Villa/Everton/Liverpool etc all building them as we speak? build it and they will come, is after all what you are proposing

the aim from the beginning was to get ourselves in to a position whereby all of the above were in place - just our luck Abramovich came along and made establishing ourselves in the top 4 harder than it would have been and now City just to add further hardship to our struggle.

 

[camspur]

Its easy to find a spacegoat today its ENIC.

 

[indianspur]

wishful thinking at best. we had no waiting list - no demand for for 20k extra seats, no steady form of on field success - no one is going to throw money at a stadium club without some kind of projected growth, something which Arsenal could show alongside demand. If it was that easy to get stadium financing to that level why aren't the likes of Villa/Everton/Liverpool etc all building them as we speak? build it and they will come, is after all what you are proposing

the aim from the beginning was to get ourselves in to a position whereby all of the above were in place - just our luck Abramovich came along and made establishing ourselves in the top 4 harder than it would have been and now City just to add further hardship to our struggle.

if what you are saying is true, then we have no hope of building a stadium now either. No on field success, no regular CL football, City and Chelsea are in a different financial league and Utd and **** have the financial power already to be regularly in the top 4. So why is Levy even bothering with the stadium, why not just quit all the plans now and stick with our 36k and occasional attempts to nick a top 4 place but gloriously fail to do so?

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

My only major (and it is a major criticism) is that we continually sell our best players and you cannot progress as a club doing that. I feel part of the reason we have had no stability with managers over the years is down to this.

Imagine you are our manager right now, you are probably thinking to yourself, Sandro, Vertonghen maybe Lloris are our only three world class players. You want to build your team around them and their attributes. You know that we can't spend along with City etc so you bring in a young potentially excellent creative CM to play alongside Sandro, or take a risk on a creative CM that the bigger clubs have passed on.

You've built on what you have and the young attacking CM turns out to be a good buy and you finish the season in a decent position. You're thinking to yourself, CM sorted, right lets move on to address our issues at centre back. We have Verts who was fantastic for us this season, lets pick up another promising young centre half who will attack the ball. You get who you want and think, spine is looking really strong here, then Madrid come in and bid big money for Sandro and Verts. Sold. Back to square one. Struggle next season due to the spine you'd built up being torn apart. Get sacked and new manager brought in.

Rinse and Repeat. Young CM tuns out to be world class, next guy starts to build the team round him. Then he's sold.

And so on and so on.............

We will never move to the next tier until we stop selling our best players.

 

[indianspur]

wishful thinking at best. we had no waiting list - no demand for for 20k extra seats, no steady form of on field success - no one is going to throw money at a stadium club without some kind of projected growth, something which Arsenal could show alongside demand. If it was that easy to get stadium financing to that level why aren't the likes of Villa/Everton/Liverpool etc all building them as we speak? build it and they will come, is after all what you are proposing

the aim from the beginning was to get ourselves in to a position whereby all of the above were in place - just our luck Abramovich came along and made establishing ourselves in the top 4 harder than it would have been and now City just to add further hardship to our struggle.

again, short sightedness. ENIC are an investment company, backed by a billionaire, they themselves saw the PL and THFC as good vehicles to invest in, so why did they think that others wouldnt do the same and even more by pumping their own wealth into clubs like has happened at Chels and Emirates Marketing Project? Wealthy owners have always personally bank rolled clubs, the Moores family at liverpool, the Edwards at Man Utd, Gibson at Boro are three examples that jump to mind.I just dont think ENIC have had a bigger vision, they have proven to be narrow minded and reactive rather than proactive.

 

[billyiddo]

if what you are saying is true, then we have no hope of building a stadium now either. No on field success, no regular CL football, City and Chelsea are in a different financial league and Utd and **** have the financial power already to be regularly in the top 4. So why is Levy even bothering with the stadium, why not just quit all the plans now and stick with our 36k and occasional attempts to nick a top 4 place but gloriously fail to do so?

we now have the demand, which is a start, we also have larger revenue streams and better signs for potential growth - it's not the complete package hence why it is taking a long time to secure the finances.

 

[billyiddo]

again, short sightedness. ENIC are an investment company, backed by a billionaire, they themselves saw the PL and THFC as good vehicles to invest in, so why did they think that others wouldnt do the same and even more pump their own wealth into clubs like has happened at Chels and Emirates Marketing Project? Wealthy owners have always personally bank rolled clubs, the Moores family at liverpool, the Edwards at Man Utd, Gibson at Boro are three examples that jump to mind.I just dont think ENIC have had a bigger vision, they have proven to be narrow minded and reactive rather than proactive.

can you clarify what you actually mean with this please?

 

[indianspur]

we now have the demand, which is a start, we also have larger revenue streams and better signs for potential growth - it's not the complete package hence why it is taking a long time to secure the finances.

larger revenue streams, but higher costs too. income AND expenditure has gone up so we are not making any more profits now than we were in the early 2000s. Signs for potential growth? Where, how?

 

[billyiddo]

larger revenue streams, but higher costs too. income AND expenditure has gone up so we are not making any more profits now than we were in the early 2000s. Signs for potential growth? Where, how?

commercial growth in emerging markets, sponsorship deals and rising tv revenue.


as i said - it's still an almighty task to secure funding for the stadium - as we are quite plainly seeing by the time it is taking to get started. Im not saying it's easy.

 

[indianspur]

can you clarify what you actually mean with this please?

regarding the stadium. Like i said, if they had been proactive from the start and made plans to expand the current WHL or build a new ground then by now we would have seen some results. But they waited and waited and now we are STILL waiting

 

[billyiddo]

regarding the stadium. Like i said, if they had been proactive from the start and made plans to expand the current WHL or build a new ground then by now we would have seen some results. But they waited and waited and now we are STILL waiting

**** or bust?

put all our eggs in a new stadium build in an era where we are languishing around in mid table and hope that by the time it is built we can magic up an extra 20k paying supporters every other week and that they don't mind us having to break even on transfers for the next 10 years or so while we somehow come up with enough money to simultaneously pay the loan repayments and break in to the top four - that's assuming we haven't been relegated after not being able to spend any money while the stadium was being built, for the same reasons.


stupid narrow minded reactive ENIC

 

[indianspur]

commercial growth in emerging markets, sponsorship deals and rising tv revenue.

which will mostly go into players pockets as it always has done. If it doesnt, then we wont keep our better players which anyway we are struggling to do so, and wont buy better ones either. That means we wont compete for the top 4 places, and so we wont be any more attractive to financiers now than we were back in 2001

 

[billyiddo]

which will mostly go into players pockets as it always has done. If it doesnt, then we wont keep our better players which anyway we are struggling to do so, and wont buy better ones either. That means we wont compete for the top 4 places, and so we wont be any more attractive to financiers now than we were back in 2001

no, if we have a loan repayment plan for the stadium in place then any wages and transfer fees will be budgeted in after the cost of that loan repayment.

the rise in the revenue streams i mention, combined with 35m extra in tv revenue we look set to be getting from this season onward means we should now hopefully be in a position to show we are capable paying off loan repayments for the stadium build - without the need for Champions League football.

 

[indianspur]

no, if we have a loan repayment plan for the stadium in place then any wages and transfer fees will be budgeted in after the cost of that loan repayment.

the rise in the revenue streams i mention, combined with 35m extra in tv revenue we look set to be getting from this season onward means we should now hopefully be in a position to show we are capable paying off loan repayments for the stadium build - without the need for Champions League football.

we shall see.......

 

[milo]

i dont think its naive at all. Banks and financial institutions were much more willing to lend money, sponsors were plentiful willing to join the football bandwagon, im sure it would have been easier to secure naming rights than it is now. Arsanal had regular CL football, but it was never a guarantee. It was not guaranteed income that they could use as evidence when applying for funding for their new ground...........im sure had it been the number one priority from the beginning back in 2001 then ENIC would somehow found a way to have us in a new ground by at least 2 or 3 years ago. It would have happened. They were simply short sighted from the start

Arsenal first stadium sponsorship deal is dwarfed by more recent deals. The value of the land Highbury stood on was worth a lot more than WHL would be too, although not all of their property deals worked out for them.

On top of this they had regular Champions League football, a stadium in a more attractive area of London for sponsors and had won things in living memory. This all suggests that any sponsorship deal we would have got at the time would have been smaller.

We would have struggled to fund a stadium at the time you mention unless it was through burdening the club with debt.

 

[Baleforce]

Lets not forget why Enic are in this, they are not fans trying to bring back the glory years.

 

[billyiddo]

Spoiler

My only major (and it is a major criticism) is that we continually sell our best players and you cannot progress as a club doing that. I feel part of the reason we have had no stability with managers over the years is down to this.

Imagine you are our manager right now, you are probably thinking to yourself, Sandro, Vertonghen maybe Lloris are our only three world class players. You want to build your team around them and their attributes. You know that we can't spend along with City etc so you bring in a young potentially excellent creative CM to play alongside Sandro, or take a risk on a creative CM that the bigger clubs have passed on.

You've built on what you have and the young attacking CM turns out to be a good buy and you finish the season in a decent position. You're thinking to yourself, CM sorted, right lets move on to address our issues at centre back. We have Verts who was fantastic for us this season, lets pick up another promising young centre half who will attack the ball. You get who you want and think, spine is looking really strong here, then Madrid come in and bid big money for Sandro and Verts. Sold. Back to square one. Struggle next season due to the spine you'd built up being torn apart. Get sacked and new manager brought in.

Rinse and Repeat. Young CM tuns out to be world class, next guy starts to build the team round him. Then he's sold.

And so on and so on.............

We will never move to the next tier until we stop selling our best players.

Is this situation unique to Levy/Enic and is it fair to single them out for blame?

I don't think so (surprisingly :lol

i can't think of many examples where clubs that aren't considered elite have been able to hold on to their stars when those that are come calling. Arsenal are the best example - Robin Van Persie, Fabregas and Nasri all left when they had the opportunity and that's a club which are forever destined to be in the Champions League - something that we can't even offer. Carrick, Berbatov, Modric and Bale - Manchester United and Real Madrid - the two biggest clubs in the world - i don't think anyone would have been able to stop them from leaving - i think we're managing that particular situation as well as anyone could, in our position and that this point in particular is one that i think is incredibly harsh to blame on the club.

It's an incredibly frustrating thing to happen but unfortunately i think it comes with the position that we find ourselves in.

Lets not forget why Enic are in this, they are not fans trying to bring back the glory years.

why are they in this?

the chances of breaking in to the top 4 now that City and Chelsea are established are slim, slim enough for me to think that ENIC would call it quits if they were only here for the Investment. Levy is a savy businessman and i think he could make more money elsewhere in the business world with the same time and effort he puts in here - it just doesn't relly add up to me

 

[milo]

why are they in this?

the chances of breaking in to the top 4 now that City and Chelsea are established are slim, slim enough for me to think that ENIC would call it quits if they were only here for the Investment. Levy is a savy businessman and i think he could make more money elsewhere in the business world with the same time and effort he puts in here - it just doesn't relly add up to me

They are an investment company, so they are in this to maximise the return on their investment.

 

[Superhudd]

They are an investment company, so they are in this to maximise the return on their investment.

There investment is... :-k

 

[billyiddo]

yeah i get that, i just think if it were purely business then they'd most likely had sold us on by now (at a fairly decent profit) as the work load required now that City and Chelsea are on the scene doesn't match up to the possible returns.


and anyway - in financial times i think we're better off with financially minded people running the club